Friday, November 04, 2005

From the mailbox: Indian Civilization

nov 4

a baffling mail. indicates some confusion, starting from the axiomatic belief in 'aryan' and 'dravidian' and the 'aryan' invasion fairy-tale, and on top of it throwing in some tamil fundamentalist beliefs. well, if you start with an axiomatic belief in something, then of course you can 'prove' it but that would be considered a self-fulfilling, flawed proof.

i wonder if this is an example of the 'dravidian' state-of-the-art thinking these days.

if any of you understand what this person is saying better than i do, please respond to him/her. i must confess i don't understand.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: B
Date: Nov 5, 2005 2:58 AM
Subject: Indian Civilization
To: Rajeev.srinivasan@gmail.com

Sir,  As an Indian ,  I most wholeheartedly agree with the constant drumbeat against our civilization by negative elements from outside and within India. But this is not the sole fault of Indian Marxists and others. India was founded by people who believed in socialism as portrayed by the Democrats of America and other such parties. Even today , Indians migrating to the USA tend to lean for the ideology of the Democrats who represent marxists, socialists and those of the liberal left who still want to distribute other people's hard earned wealth. However, in India's case you blamed the left and people of such beliefs for the disarray and distortion of India's history and rightly so. But there are a few outstanding things which  trouble  not only bona fide Indian historians but western ones as well. There are some revisionists who are now trying to stretch back the ancient history even further WITHOUT  providing the necessary solid evidence that, that  history existed. Here are a few of them:        1:  Nowhere in the archaeological record, or writings  of India are there evidence
                              that cremation was practiced for funeral purposes before 1500BC.                                                                           2:  The Dalits of India have always been complaining that they were brutally
                              oppressed by the Aryan newcomers. While this is true there are no bona fide records to indicate their
                              suppression at the hands of the Aryans before 1500 BC 
                         3:   Also, if Aryans occupied India before 1500BC , are there any evidence to show that   
                              the caste system existed before 1500BC?
                         4:  Again,  if Aryans occupied India before 1500 BC, why is there no record among the other
                              ancient people whose records are bereft of such accounts such as cremation, horse sacrifice, 
                             horses, chariots and religious customs which were an important part of the life of the 
                             Aryans?  
                         5:  Recent research by scholars of the Tamil language and literature are empty of Aryan loan words, no
                              record in their literature of Aryan customs, rites and other such things before 1500BC
                         7:  The attempt by certain historians and writers of India , who I presume  that in rewriting India's
                              history is doing something noble, which I applaud, is having the opposite effect. For, example
                              Mr. N. Rajaram's attempt to falsely insert the image of the  horse in the Indus civilization, 
                              only tarnishes India's reputation abroad in the eyes of  Western scholars.   Everyone 
                              knows that the IVC did not possess, the horse, the chariot, the swastika or the horse nor
                              did they practice cremation. The archaeological record reveals that the IVC buried their
                             dead because their custom was from the south and probably among the first people to occupy India.
                         8:  Although, one of India's most distinguished historian, Mr. Iyengar  whose book" DRAVIDIAN INDIA "
                             emphatically states that cremation only came to India  after 1500 BC , the revisionists still insist that 
                             Aryans occupied India before that date and in doing so, making millions of Indians believe that the 
                             Aryans were not the progenitors of Indian history.
                         9: Recent research has shown that although some scripts of the Indus has been found in the surrounding
                             civilizations, but curiously enough no languages of those countries has been found among the Indus
                             ruins.  Why?
                        10:Certain segments of the population, especially the educated vast majority of Indians apparently 
                             the white nomadic Aryans, who play such an important part of Indian history.
                        11:Do you Mr.Srinivasan and others really do believe that an ancient, supposed to be barbaric and
                             crude characters as the Aryans is capable of building such  magnificent cities as the IVC?  If 
                            you do , then you will have to produce evidence of such earlier cities from the supposed  time
                            the Aryans occupied India and that is from before 1500 BC. 
                       12: Finally, I would invite any viewer and writer of your website to reply to me, even Mr. N Rajaram! 
                            Thanks for reading my boring beliefs.  

31 comments:

Kalyani said...

Rajeev,

You have been unduly charitable in calling it a "baffling mail" whereas the howler has unwittingly stated the truth-----"boring beliefs".

Some delirious brain's rantings.You are right about the "dravidian" pattern of thinking.You just have to listen to one of their shoddy debates (Patti Manrams)which are but a boorish display of verbal pyrotechnics!

The "boring belifs" are like the 'bondas' with no stuffing inside.

Kalyani said...

Correction of typo-"beliefs"

Anonymous said...

"If you cannot convince them, confuse them." - Hence the confusing email.

Anonymous said...

1: Nowhere in the archaeological record, or writings of India are there evidence that cremation was practiced for funeral purposes before 1500BC
When other religions go by the "book", we should also do the same based on our puranic (read ancient) writings. Our Mahabharatha has cremations in them. There is no evidence that 1500BC was the beginning of the Hindu civilization. This was an unsubstantiated theory conveniently inserted as a fact by British and missionary sponsored historians (who are also in control of history in India today) which you and me have simply accepted without questioning! Going by other indigenous schools of thought (who are likely more credible) the Mahabaratha was much before 1500BC, so the practice of cremation existed before. Unless ofcourse you we stick to our belief in ignorance. Education is in reading, questioning and accepting more credible points of view and not pandering to one's blind beliefs.

2: The Dalits of India have always been complaining that they were brutally oppressed by the Aryan newcomers. While this is true there are no bona fide records to indicate their suppression at the hands of the Aryans before 1500 BC

The Tamizh puranams (especially the Peria puranam) categorically show that all are equal before God -- though a Tamizh purana this is the same theme in all our Puranas. Don't go all the way bak to 1500BC (which is again an interesting date, the Dalits have completely accepted that date from the missionry and missionary sponsored propaganda). The Dalits have been brainwashed by the missionaries and missionary sponsored subverts to believe that their enemies are their own bretheren, while the enemies are the Christist whites -- Dalits are as much Hindus as anyone else; see the name of Dalits is iteself a divisionary tacktic as are Animists, Tribals etc. Wherever the society stands in Chaos, the non-white world such divionary tactics were employed. Instead of posting such a question, ask an Hindu who claims to be a Dalit, to prove that there were Aryans in the first place and then that they were peresucted by these Aryans after 1500BC -- in variably you will find only hate filled, unsubstantiated propaganda. The so called Dalit and non_Dalit divide today is the Hindu society's problem, not the Christist's.


3: Also, if Aryans occupied India before 1500BC , are there any evidence to show that the caste system existed before 1500BC?

The Mahabharatha is replete with such example and most indigenous therories are more credible in this regard.

4: Again, if Aryans occupied India before 1500 BC, why is there no record among the other ancient people whose records are bereft of such accounts such as cremation, horse sacrifice, horses, chariots and religious customs which were an important part of the life of the Aryans?

Simple, because the Aryan invasion theory is a myth created by the colonial masters and thier missionary stooges! Turn the question around, ask the AIT proponets to conclusively pove to you that AIT was indeed a reality!

5: Recent research by scholars of the Tamil language and literature are empty of Aryan loan words, no record in their literature of Aryan customs, rites and other such things before 1500BC

Again, because there was no AIT!! Please note that certain Tamizh scholars are now tending to believe that Sanskrit was archaic Tamizh! Please Google for more info.


7: The attempt by certain historians and writers of India , who I presume that in rewriting India's history is doing something noble, which I applaud, is having the opposite effect. For, example
Mr. N. Rajaram's attempt to falsely insert the image of the horse in the Indus civilization,
only tarnishes India's reputation abroad in the eyes of Western scholars. Everyone knows that the IVC did not possess, the horse, the chariot, the swastika or the horse nor did they practice cremation. The archaeological record reveals that the IVC buried their dead because their custom was from the south and probably among the first people to occupy India.


First you seem to believe one set of theories without questioning its authenticity, such as AIT, since it perhaps comes from Western sources but in the same breadth you easily question the work of a person of Indian origin -- think about the implication of that carefully! That aside, the history as it stands today is a shame thrust on us by our erstwhile rulers, now perpetuated by our own traitors. History is not recorded as was done during the old days of our Indian kings, instead it is doctored to further foreign interests! Please educate yourself with the Tamizh puranas for more information. Leave aside the N. Rajaraman's controversy, how much of Tamizh history and Indian history do you know. Educate yourself in real stuff before posting questions for which you cannot get conclusive answers from anyone on public forums like this. You should question those "emminent" Historians that you trust on the veracity of their writings.

8: Although, one of India's most distinguished historian, Mr. Iyengar whose book" DRAVIDIAN INDIA " emphatically states that cremation only came to India after 1500 BC , the revisionists still insist that Aryans occupied India before that date and in doing so, making millions of Indians believe that the Aryans were not the progenitors of Indian history.

Poor brahmin, this Iyengar!

Anyway, can the "expert" prove his assertion that cremation did not exist before 1500BC?

Guy/Gal, you are so impressed by this Arayan and Davidian theory! Why not question the "emminent" Romilla Thappar to prove such a division ever existed.

9: Recent research has shown that although some scripts of the Indus has been found in the surrounding civilizations, but curiously enough no languages of those countries has been found among the Indus ruins. Why?

Interestingly new research is out there to show a continuity between Saraswati and Indus civilizations, Google!

But then you will bilieve only whom you want to believe. I suggest you read through all the material and quesition those AIT "experts" to prove thier case.

10:Certain segments of the population, especially the educated vast majority of Indians apparently the white nomadic Aryans, who play such an important part of Indian history.

Boy this is propaganda stuff! Visit the Bradshaw foundation for information on genetics to be more educated. Also visit atlan.org for an exhaustive reaseach.

11:Do you Mr.Srinivasan and others really do believe that an ancient, supposed to be barbaric and crude characters as the Aryans is capable of building such magnificent cities as the IVC? If
you do , then you will have to produce evidence of such earlier cities from the supposed time
the Aryans occupied India and that is from before 1500 BC.


I am sure that Rajeev and other readers believe that India was one of the greatest civilization's on earth, perhaps even the mother of all civilizations. Again please visit bradshaw foundation that has published the results of human migration patterns in the last 200,000 years -- a product of the genome project.

12: Finally, I would invite any viewer and writer of your website to reply to me, even Mr. N Rajaram! Thanks for reading my boring beliefs.

Who ever you are, one thing is for sure -- you are as confused about our culture and history as I am! I went to a Catholic school, despite that I question the history as it is accepted today. Cartels seem to have a stangle hold on free information, in the fear that it might affect their religious and political agendas. So today fiction is fact and fact is suppressed!

I am certain of one thing, that a discontinuity was created by the colonialists and their masters, simply to confuse the heck out of all Indians -- then we become easy prey, for easy picking!! We fight against one another, forgetting our common ancestory and glorious history. In that melee, the subverts, the traitors, and thier sponsors thrive!! Now can we start seeing the game or play along for tactical gains!

The sad part is I spent so much time on so much of nonsense posting! Well I guess it makes me a bigger moron than you!

Honestly I did it in the hope that you wil first get educated properly, jettision your own biases and start seeing things not though the clouds of your prejudices but through the strength of your wisdom gained from knowledge.

Good luck to you in your quest for the truth!

pennathur said...

This accusation against NS Rajaram has been repeated by that Tamizhvanan from West Begal (Tamizhvanan for those of you who don't know was a cheap weekly publisher Kalkandu which used to liberally lift articles from English magazines - Tamizhvanan conferred the diploma MAS - Master of All Subjects - upon himself in tru bombastic Tamizh style). Few dunces know that Rajaram took up his objections with the Frontline and had a rejoinder published in the magazine with a detailed interview. The little scientific archaeology and history that has come from India has happened either because of the ASI or because of the hard work of the pre-Nehru era historians who unlike the present crop were well trained in a host of languages, and several otehr disciplines. As for Tamizh historians the less said the better.

mitra said...

>> I am sure that Rajeev and other readers believe that India was one of the greatest civilization's on earth, perhaps even the mother of all civilizations. <<

Simply surviving is not greatness. Going by this criterion, the most successful animals are insects, not humans. Insects have been surviving since much longer, and outnumber the humans by thousands of times.

We suck. And we have been sucking for the last thousand years. We have been slaves to any nomadic tribe which cared to walk in through the Hindukush passes, however small their number might be. Exiled chieftains like Babur became our emperors. And this, inspite of India being a natural defensive stronghold, and entry being limited to just two passes in the North-West.

Contrast this with China. Chinese civilization is as old as, if not older than India. And the Chinese were next door to all those steppe invaders - Huns, Mongols and Turks. But the Chinese have never been enslaved. They had no natural barrier; just a flat loess plain which facilitated invasions. So the Chinese had to build the great wall to keep invaders out.

mitra said...

N S Rajaram has no credentials. He is just a retired techie who is dabbling in history, and who has become Hindutva's hero because even halfway respectable spokesmen are hard to come by. N S Rajaram theorizes, and nothing else. Theorizising is the easiest thing to do. He hates linguistics and archeology, since he has no competence in these disciplines.The Hindutva brigade is not bothered with hard research - they dont have the brains; and they are scared that the findings might not be favourable. So, this great support to rewriters of mythology.

Anonymous said...

We suck....Contrast this with China...
Ofcourse yes, we will be sucked when we have people like you let it suck. BTW, you are not the first one, we had similar people from time of Jaichands.

BTW, if you did not know Chinese history, it had all the problems India had. It was attacked by everybody, colonized during opium wars, raped by Japanese and now enslaved by foriegn ideology, communism.

Anonymous said...

Rajeev

I suspect this MITRA is a chinese. Our jaichands are far better than him.

san said...

Mitra, you may be right that we suck, but shouldn't that be a justification for working to turn things around rather than giving in to defeatism? Maybe India's natural geographic defenses have made people soft, as contrasted with Spartans or Huns who had to endure constant invasions and attacks. Islam seems to have been born in an area which constantly had foreign armies marching through it, so maybe we can see how it came to have its particular set of values, however obsolete these are today.

But now we're the ones suffering the Ummahgration, so it's our turn to push back. If you don't want to lend a hand, then get out of the way.

san said...

Has anyone heard of this National Development Front?

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=oped&file_name=opd2%2Etxt&counter_img=2

Are they receiving any external support, either from outside the state or outside the country?

mitra said...

San:

It appears you are sincerely trying to find "solutions". I hate to repeat, but that is what comes out of a purely technical "education" and inexperience. The world is percieved as a set of "problems" for which solutions have to be found. Therein lie the value of history and philosophy. Nothing is a problem. Being a Hindu, you should be aware of the inexorable way of fate. Rise and fall of societies are secular trends against which we humans, with our limited lifespans can just bang our heads in futility. Read Oswald Spengler. You will know how societies rise and fall. Where were the Muslims a hundred years back ? Before oil was found ?

The value of religion ultimately lies in its influence in organizing and uniting societies; not in individual salvation; because there isn't any. By this yardstick, semitic religions are far more useful than Hinduism which atomises and individualises. They also impel societies to expand, and conquer; and contrary to what readers on this blog may think, expansion and conquest is a good thing; it is a sign of vigourous societies. Because ultimately life is nothing but competition between differing set of genes which constitute various societies. The final goal of an individual is to procreate, and of societies, to survive, and propagate. There is no cause for abusing other religions; expansion is the natural order of things; It is Darwin's law of survival of the fittest; and only fools presume that natuaral laws do not operate upon Homo sapiens because they have aquired a thin vaneer of civilization.

Even Vedas have a martial undertone. It is only later that Hinduism developed a siege mentality, which is persisting even today. Expansionism is only natural. We as hindus, have a duty to assess why Hinduism has diverted from the natural law, rather than abuse others who follow it. If you live in a hut surrounded by man-eating tigers, it is your fault; not the tiger's.

mitra said...

While readers on this blog are very fond of berating semitic religions, it is important to understand why monotheism was percieved as "advancement" over polytheism. The otherworldly benefits of religion, whatever they may be, accrue solely to an individual. So, it does not matter to anybody, not even to close relatives, whether a person attains salvation, if there be any such thing, through religion A or B. In this area, there is no conflict between religions.

But religions have a very significant "this-worldly" presence. Inherent features of a religion can unite or fragment societies. Monotheistic religions provided uniting cement in an era when nation states were unknown. Witness the phenomena of crusades, in which warriors from many states in Europe fought, or the dramatic expansion of Islam, brought about by the righteous fanaticism of the "ghazi".

In contrast, Hinduism offers hardly any social benefits. The otherworldly aspects or the moral code is for the individual to follow. The social code propounded by Hinduism: the caste system, is higly divisive and unegalitarian.
Contrary to what Hindutva proponents may say, the artisan class converted to Islam largely voluntarily, in order to escape an unequitable social order. There was not much advantage to the Muslim elite in converting artisans, who provided neither spiritual, nor administrative aristocracy. Hinduism was largely saved by the Bhakti movement with its unstructured laisse-faire hinduism.

In my opinion, Hinduism has a bleak future unless rescued by a radical protestant movement. Readers would do well to understand the inherent problems in Hinduism, rather than waxing eloquent on the "evil features" of other religions.

Anonymous said...

san,

NDF is a ISI-supported terror organization based in Kerala. Their members have inflitrated into all political parties and they have also full support from Kerala govt. as well as CPM, since their agenda is to convert Kerala into another Kashmir. Just like the missionaries, they give fake support to Dalit rights while simultaneously involving in ethnic cleansing of the natives.
NDF activits pulled down the national flag in Kozhikode airport this year and hoisted the Pakistan flag, but the Kerala Govt. has given a clean chit to them. Their uniform is also similar to Pak army!! In a land where CPM worships Bin Laden and Saddam husein as saints, these organizations are fall under charitable human rights org. Yes, they have foreign funding especially from Gulf. They just need to make a demand, and Kerala muslims based in Gulf , even if they are poor, sends more than 10% of their salary. This happened in a friend's store in Gulf, so I know. Sadly even some Christians organizations silently support them since they can exploit the situation and grow only if they make Hindus and muslims fight.

san said...

thanks for the NDF info, anon.

mitra, as an atheist I'm perfectly happy with a technical explanation of the universe and need no spiritual crutch for solace. regarding your critique of hinduism/polytheism vs semitic monotheism, yes I agree that the "my one god", "my way or the highway" uniformity and orthodoxy have been the main pillars of the monotheist revolution.

but take a look at buddhism for example, or even sikhism. buddha went thru the same soul-searching stuff and came up with similar solutions for the people, so it's not like others haven't figured out what the semites did. even with sikhism, it was obvious they went out of their way to put a single-creed stamp to block any mughal attempts at divide-and-rule. and you have to admit, they did a pretty good job of expansionism and conquest against the muslims, occupying all the way upto kabul. they outdid the semites on the martial -- you don't see any semitic faiths requiring you to bear knives at all times. the only way you could top that is to maybe update with a requirement to bear a gun.

but hey, in modern conquest warfare and empire, i would say there are now conflicting imperatives. the americans are the most successful military power ever, and that's not due to bowing towards mecca 5 times a day or locking up the women. it's due to relentless exploration of the physical world, and harnessing physical laws of nature in ever more destructive ways. and yet their open society that permits their technical progress is still vulnerable to infiltration by the dedicated illiterates from the ummah. i could even make the same case about india.

while the muslims have that social cohesion to a certain extent, their backward orthodoxy still blocks them from technological superiority. there are still however schisms and infighting such as shia-vs-sunni, and even arab-vs-turk, or arab-vs-persian, or kurd-vs-turk, or arab northern sudanese vs black southern sudanese.

even the most fundamentalist afghan stooges of pakistan, such as gulbudin hekmatyar and his taliban rivals, were unwilling to sign any document validating the durand line which pakistan desperately wanted.

but as far as hinduism overcoming tribal fractiousness, i would agree that while a hindu reformist movement would be nice (actually there are more than one in existence even now), the fact is that caste doesn't originate with hinduism. imho, caste pre-dates the existence of any organized religion on the subcontinent. hinduism merely bent itself to accomodate the pre-existing desire for caste, and similarly you'll even find communist naxalite groups today who cater to caste sensitivities by setting up separate camps to segregate caste groups. even muslim and christians in india practice caste distinction, altho they like to pass the buck and blame it on their hindu past. this desire to cater to caste comes from elsewhere, from something deeper than religion or ideology.

if i tell you from where, you'll roll your eyes when I say it:

it comes from our EQ (or more precisely, our sheer lack of it)
it may also be rooted in our village-as-island mentality, but it is perpetuated by our desire to segregate ourselves into close-knit groups rather than face the burden of individualism within a wider sea. in that respect the monolithic glacier of semitic monotheism would be too brittle to handle the stress of the demanding indian ego.

look at ahmadiya muslims, they weren't content with the words of the original prophet, so they had to come up with an extra one, much to the ire of the rest of the ummah. look at kashmiri muslims, they didn't feel special enough worshipping the kaaba thousands of miles away, so they had to invent the hazratbal story just so they could have their own piece of the prophet. sufis and their saints are another example.

islamists aren't just united by their semitic monotheism act -- they're also united by the fact that they're losers.
no really, i'm not saying that as a scalding mockery, i'm pointing out that those who are at the bottom in achievement will often commiserate together. even indian commies like to join arms with the muslims -- so does that make indian commies semitic? no, it just means they come from the same social strata at the bottom of society, so they will commiserate with their fellow underachievers and commonly rail against those who are doing better.

in an economically flourishing india, semitics and commies will have less and less appeal, as the tangible benefits of technological goods/services from the market economy give them tangible upliftment, and also as the drab mao suits and burkhas are outpaced by cultural dynamism and entropy.

even the semitically and monotheistically rooted western world is showing increasing decline of religion, and its replacement with the more comprehensively satisfying answers of science and technology.

the pakistanis have some nukes and a land transit corridor to parlay, but that's about all they have left to cling to.

mitra said...

>> but take a look at buddhism for example, or even sikhism. buddha went thru the same soul-searching stuff and came up with similar solutions for the people, so it's not like others haven't figured out what the semites did. even with sikhism, it was obvious they went out of their way to put a single-creed stamp to block any mughal attempts at divide-and-rule. and you have to admit, they did a pretty good job of expansionism and conquest against the muslims, <<

That just proves my point. Monotheism unites. And dont look at what Islam and Christianity are today. Look at their historical achievments. Both these religions brought a kind of political unity to large parts of the globe. And they civilized the barbaric tribes by providing much needed hierarchy in the society. Islam brought the entire middle east, and the nomadic tribes of the steppe under the caliphate; and christianity civilized the non-roman europe. Where are the achievments of hinduism in this regard?

Buddhism did spread to large parts of east Asia. but it is an atheistic religion( or call it henotheistic - like immediate post vedic hinduism). Buddhism spread because it had a structured, monastic hierarchy.

I still stand by my assertion that polytheistic/ laisse-faire religions have no social benefits to offer. being amorphous, they cannot create a political hierarchy -- a great drawback.

>> in an economically flourishing india, semitics and commies will have less and less appeal, as the tangible benefits of technological goods/services from the market economy give them tangible upliftment, and also as the drab mao suits and burkhas are outpaced by cultural dynamism and entropy. <<

Yes. but then, even Hinduism will increasingly be less important. It will be restricted more and more to the personal sphere. The time for religions is over. They have served their purpose in uniting people when there were no other factors.

Anonymous said...

Monotheism unites
Once a christian priest said in Kerala. Root cause of most of the troubles we have is that there are too many religions in the world. There should be only one religion and let that be Christianity :-o

Monothiesm unites when there is only one religion. When there are many it creates worst form animosity, intolerance and violence. It won't tolerate ideas which is different from what the religion propagates, remember persecution of Kepler etc. or see how Islamists persecute Ahmedias or Bahais. Monothiesm is useful to mobilize people against a perceived enemy. In the absence of an enemy its internal power structure will start corrupting from top.

Difference in polythiesm is that it can see God in others' God too. It doesn't let you become narrow minded. Hinduism is the religion for future because as people become more sophisticated they will become more tolerant and realize that there are many ways to see God. Higher levels of Hinduism doesn't say that God started everything on a particular day or God is waiting there to punish you for every mistake you do. It will stand for individual liberty for his choice of worship or not to worship a God at all.

mitra said...

>> Difference in polythiesm is that it can see God in others' God too. <<

Yes, but as I said already, I am not bothered about the other-worldly aspects of religion. Being a humanist, I firmly believe that death ends it all. So, no religion has anything to offer to me after death.

I was discussing this-worldly uses of religion. All religions provide a moral code which, being of supposedly divine origin, has greater acceptibility than man made laws. Religions also, in varying degree, promote cohesiveness among its followers. And, in this respect, monotheistic religions are far superior.They create a religious hierarchy, with their god at the apex. Polytheism allows for individual choice, and hence, leads to anarchy.

Anonymous said...

mitra said...
I'm a humanist.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO

So mitra is human! I didn't know that. Isn't he that ape from africa?

S said...

Dear B,
You deride the socialists, and talk like one. Check the comments above what Mitra says, and compare with your comments.

To give you a context, Mitra will deride hinduism all the time, but thinks people are against semitic religions ! In 18th century some of these were openly called as half converted christians, when the secular facade was not there.

Basically Missionaries have brainwashed and fucked their brains. Becuase whites didn't accept them and they had to suck from himduism, they talk whatever Macaulay has taught them.

For example, World is a set of problems, and nicely the solution is in value of history and philosophy ( But not philosophy of history), Macaulay has taught that it is historical philosophy instead, and the solution is in finding the aryan and dravidian.

If you don't know these, then a sincere advise is to take Ram nam, instead of succumbing to brainwashed macaluayites. If you think you are secular, then understand what Macalay has taught to his subjects.

Don't look at the aryan dravidian arguments. That will only make you a inferior macalayite, inferior than Mitra.

Anonymous said...

I was discussing this-worldly uses of religion. All religions provide a moral code which, being of supposedly divine origin, has greater acceptibility than man made laws. Religions also, in varying degree, promote cohesiveness among its followers. And, in this respect, monotheistic religions are far superior. They create a religious hierarchy, with their god at the apex.

What you see in monotheism is a political party similar to communist party or nazi party or even a bathist party or an organization which is capable of mobilizing people for a cause with a divine touch. It will work as long as individuals are brain washed. Once they understand a broader picture they will try to come out of that narrow mindset. Currently the two major monotheistic religion have so much hold on its people that it achieved during dark ages.

Polytheism allows for individual choice, and hence, leads to anarchy.
Yes, if that is applied to dumb people it can cause anarchy. If people's thought process matures they will opt for it.

Kalyani said...

The above Anonymous is right.

The majority, who venture, in haste, to express an opinion about 'Hinduism', do so, without doing their homework and the requisite qualifications.

Particularly culpable are the 'new age, self styled not -even- a -quarter- baked gurujis'(sic,sic,sic) who are misleading people claiming to reform 'Sanathana Dharmam'!!

Shun those who "paint a rose and gild a lily".


I stand by whatever I have posted hitherto about them in this blog in the past.

It is not just muslims and evangelists who hold out threats to the dissenters and whistle blowers; these 'hindu cultists' are equally dangerous and diabolical.

I am not making any vain allegation but stating the TRUTH!

S said...

Mitra is hiding stuff, it will work in 'you scratch my back and I will' type intelectual ghettoes of JNU agcnts, not before literate people.

Mitra should be asked to read the basis of his sayings, so that he doesn't think it as the final truth like a commie fanatic.


I was discussing this-worldly uses of religion. All religions provide a moral code which, being of supposedly divine origin, has greater acceptibility than man made laws

Anonymous said...

Mitra wrote: "Contrast this with China. Chinese civilization is as old as, if not older than India. And the Chinese were next door to all those steppe invaders - Huns, Mongols and Turks. But the Chinese have never been enslaved. They had no natural barrier; just a flat loess plain which facilitated invasions. So the Chinese had to build the great wall to keep invaders out. "

I am afraid Mitra is wrong on several counts. The Chinese suffered at the hands of the Japenese very badly (Remember ' the rape of Nanking?'). Then there were the opium wars, resulting the cedetion of their territory to the cunning Brits (Hong Kong). Also, the Chinese land is not plain as you think. It is very mountaneous for most part, the Chinese Wall straddles these mountains over long stretches. The land is also criss crossed by rivers such as the Yangtse.

....Nationalist

Sameer said...

Mitra is a third rated, missionary funded, commie bastard.... licking Islamist's asses...

S said...

The marxists enslaved China and massacred a few millions. The Mitrokhins would say this is liberation. They are hesitant to do such liberation in India, for the it hurts to emmigrate from Bangalesh and settle elsewhere away from the lush green lands they had possessed.

Never the less the Mitrokhins liberate a couple of policemen and poor people every day. Shouldn't this liberation count while comparing with Mao's mass liberation ???




"Contrast this with China. Chinese civilization is as old as, if not older than India. And the Chinese were next door to all those steppe invaders - Huns, Mongols and Turks. But the Chinese have never been enslaved.

mitra said...

>> I am afraid Mitra is wrong on several counts. The Chinese suffered at the hands of the Japenese very badly (Remember ' the rape of Nanking?'). Then there were the opium wars, resulting the cedetion of their territory to the cunning Brits (Hong Kong). Also, the Chinese land is not plain as you think. It is very mountaneous for most part, the Chinese Wall straddles these mountains over long stretches. The land is also criss crossed by rivers such as the Yangtse. <<

Defeat is not same as enslavement. Rape of Nanking and Opium wars were defeats leading to short term occupation. The chinese central administration was never extinguished. India was enslaved; there was no Indian ruled government, apart from a few principalities.

The steppe is open to the west -- from where most invasions came. True, there are mountains; but these are low and passes are numerous.The Yangtse is far to the east; it is no barrier. And you can circumvent the mountains to enter china. No such possibility in respect of India. Himalayas are high and unbroken, and the passes of Khyber and Bolan have to be used if you come from west.

Anonymous said...

India was enslaved

Precisely, due to scoundrels like mitra.

DarkStorm said...

!!! Troll Alert. !!!

mitra is an automated troll bot. please avoid answering it, you might be inundated with spam.

Anonymous said...

darkstorm, did you check Bharat-Rakshak.com for your nuke questions?

DarkStorm said...

no anon, not yet. I will check it out now.