Sunday, November 13, 2005

eurabia: bat ye'or interview

nov 13th

she coined this term some time ago, and it's turning out to be prescient.

No 'cheap souk'

Egyptian-born scholar Bat Ye'or has written extensively about the treatment of dhimmis, or non-Muslims, under Muslim domination. Her latest book, Eurabia (Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 2005), chronicles Arab determination to subdue Europe as a cultural appendage to the Muslim world-and Europe's willingness to be so subjugated. It is her first book to be published in English before French, a decision Bat Ye'or now says took into account U.S. terror threats but did not foresee the dramatic spike in Muslim-led violence in France. Its publication in French is soon due out.

WORLD: Have the intensity and longevity of the uprisings in France surprised you?

BAT YE'OR: Yes, I was surprised. I did not expect such violence for the accidental deaths of two youths, a tragedy that can happen at any moment in any city, including in Muslim countries; in fact, such a reaction in a Muslim country is not conceivable. Nor did I expect the lethargy and incapacity of parents and the people in the suburbs to control the youth. However, it is the state of total unpreparedness to deal rapidly with an intifada that is worrying.

WORLD: Please explain how its roots go back to the 1970s and even further.

BAT YE'OR: In the 1960s after decolonization, France and Great Britain wanted to establish good relations with their former Arab colonies, while the Arab League was trying to bring Europe to adopt an anti-Zionist and pro-Arab line. The nine countries of the European Community (EC) made a deal with the Arab League countries based on a strategy: the creation of a Mediterranean multicultural and united society. This Euro-Arab alliance was based on three pillars: anti-Zionism and the promotion and support by Europe of Arafat; anti-Americanism and a European policy contrary to that of America; the guarantee of oil supply to Europe. Within this framework, specialists set up numerous unofficial agreements. Muslim immigration is a part of these agreements with a view to create a multicultural Mediterranean society where Christians and Muslims would be reconciled-on the base of anti-Zionism and the delegitimization of Israel and its withering away.

WORLD: Is Europe's Muslim population seeking to be ghettoized?

BAT YE'OR: The radicalized youths of the suburbs of Paris and elsewhere want to control their "territory." [They see] state control as an occupation and an infringement on their rights.

WORLD: Muslim leaders are, according to press reports, working as mediators between angry youths and authorities. Can Islamic leaders come alongside a secular state?

BAT YE'OR: This would make of France an Islamic-type state, or two states: one ruled by French law, with extraterritorial entities ruled by Islamic laws.

WORLD: With these uprisings spreading through Europe, what can European leaders do to halt the violence?

BAT YE'OR: The first thing to do is to stop immigration, and this is not in the cards. Then they should reassess European laws, values, and identity. These have been depreciated by our leaders, fascinated by multiculturalism-the Andalusian utopia, the greatness of Islam-and business profits. We need to re-establish European identity and stop making it a cheap souk open to anyone. Europe must stop its antisemitism and anti-Zionism, because the biblical values are at the root of Christianity and of Europe's civilization.

WORLD: You have a provocative chapter in Eurabia on "The Islamization of Christianity" . . .

BAT YE'OR: There are many processes of Islamization. One of them is through theology and the adoption of the Muslim replacement theology, whereby the biblical figures from Adam-Abraham, Moses, down to Mary and Jesus-are all considered as "Muslim prophets." Hence, Israel's history is transferred to the Muslim Palestinians, and it is easy to see from there the final transition to Islam where the Jewish Jesus becomes an Arab-Palestinian-Muslim prophet.

WORLD: How is Eurabia being received in Europe?

BAT YE'OR: It brought me enemies, and I was calumniated in The New York Times. A major French weekly ran several articles against me, forcing me to take a lawyer, obliging them to publish my response. Half a dozen European publishers have shown interest to publish it in different languages, and there is a great interest from the public as well.


HP said...

The Muslim world's desire to subjugate Europe has evident for a long time. But the claim that Europe is willing to be subjugated is ridiculous. Bat Ye'or like any other Jew, clubs all supporters of Palestinians as anti-Zionist. If you look it from a neutral perspective, the Jews are no better that the Muslims. The Muslims was to dominate the world by violence and the Jews are using their control over the US economy to further their own agenda. Jews control a major part of the US economy and are also trying to get the support of Christians by claiming to be their biblical roots.

Just because Europe protests against the illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Israel, this does not make them antisemitist and anti-Zionist.

indianpatriot said...

Call the bluff of America

Instead of advising India on caste system, the US would do better to address its own social problems, says Tarun Vijay

In November, the US Congress will discuss a Bill on Indian Dalits that deals with their treatment. Congressman Christopher Smith, a New Jersey Republican who chairs the House International Relations Subcommittee on Global Human Rights and International Operations, held previous discussions on the topic in October this year.

Mr Smith convened the hearing titled 'India's Unfinished Agenda - Equality and Justice for Victims of Caste System', during which, he said, "The Dalits and tribal peoples are treated as virtual non-humans, and suffer pervasive discrimination and violation of their human rights."

In his discussion, Mr Smith alleged that Dalit girls are becoming temple prostitutes and tens of thousands of tribal women have been forced into situations of economic and sexual exploitation. He further said that despite constitutional safeguards, the rights of indigenous groups in the eastern parts of the country are often ignored and mob violence such as lynching, arson and police atrocities against tribal persons are all too common.

Mr Smith, bringing out the 'real' issue, said, "Over the years, many Dalits and tribal groups have converted from Hinduism to other faiths (read Christianity). However, such converts often lose benefits conferred by the Government's affirmative action programmes because these, according to the Constitution, are reserved only for those having Scheduled Caste status. Converts to Christianity and Christian missionaries are particularly targeted, as violence against Christians often goes unpunished."

Any person blind to Indian interests would find such blatant lies offensive. Why take refuge in lies and falsehood in a country where god speaks directly to its President? And why are such concerns always limited to Christians? Is the US the sole protector of Christian rights, globally? Are Indian Christians comfortable when another country interferes in their matters? Why are they silent? Do they feel only US can help them and not the Indian Constitution or people? Do they know that Indian Dalits are lured into Christianity by announcements preaching that only Hinduism has caste based discrimination; that once you become Christian, you become equal in the eyes of all?

Missionaries fail to mention, however, that even after conversion, Dalit Christians have to go to separate churches and have designated separate cemeteries, too. The same happens to the Dalits when they turn to Islam but are still told to demand reservation! An Dalit receives Government reservation by virtue of being a Hindu to rectify the injustices faced due to caste-based discrimination. The moment he leaves Hinduism and is baptised or Islamised, the raison d'etre for benefits automatically ceases to exist.

Hungry for battle, US President Bush has now unleashed a war on Hindus through sanctioning billions of dollars for proselytising campaigns. The US Congress's debates about Indian Dalits provide Christian missionaries with a 'cover' to convert weaker sections of Hindus in the same way that Pakistanis provide cover to the jihadi infiltrators along the LoC.

This process has two steps: First, creating an atmosphere of baseless allegations and stating Christians alone are victims, thus making Indians defensive. Second, asking for safeguards from these allegations from the proselytisers and unleashing a billion dollar campaign to take advantage of a disjointed Hindu society.

It is sad to see a complete absence of protest from the Government of India that claims to represent all sections of the Indian society and, above all, national honour. Still worse, Dalit movements have not been able to produce nationalist leaders like BR Ambedkar, who would stand up against blatant US interference in our internal matters. Most of the present lot thrives on the support of foreign NGOs and US groups which use them for their nefarious designs. They forget that the eradication of untouchability and caste-based discrimination has been the single most important issue for all Hindu social reformers and political leaders, across party lines. From Guru Gobind Singh to Sahuji Maharaj to Vivekanand, Mahatma Gandhi, Ambedkar, Hedgewar, and the present political groups, all are unanimous regarding this. But, due to vote-bank politics, caste still plays a major role in hampering progress needed to achieve an egalitarian and casteless society. Though it's a serious problem, Indians are addressing it with full support from the Constitution and their socio-religious and political groups.

Americans should set their own house in order before interfering in the affairs of other sovereign countries. According to Human Rights Watch, US figures reveal the continuing, extraordinary magnitude of minority incarceration and the stark disparity in their rates of incarceration compared to those of whites. Out of a total population of 1,976,019 incarcerated in adult facilities, 1,239,946 or 63 per cent are black or Latino, though these two groups constitute only 25 per cent of the national population. Instead of giving baseless commentary on the caste situation in India, the US Congress would do better to address social problems in America

DarkStorm said...

HP, that is really funny :)). The world knows the difference between what the Jews do and what you jehadis do.

DarkStorm said...

>>>>>> In his discussion, Mr Smith alleged that Dalit girls are becoming temple prostitutes and tens of thousands of tribal women have been forced into situations of economic and sexual exploitation.

Hey patriot, these stupid americans believe anything they are told by the likes of kancha iliah and udit raj. Funny. No doubt they believed Iraq has WMD :)) LOL.

I have never seen any prostitute in any temple, much less having any idea about what so-called caste she is.

kancha iliah is just using these tactics to pressure america to pressure indian govt to increase reservations , and also extend them all over, including MNCs in India. Now I really dont care about caste as long as person has merit. But forcing in dumb people in the name of reservations is bad. Now, I really am not against reservations for so called Dalits in medical and engg colleges. But what about a student, who barely managed to pass his school, will hold the scalpel.

Heard about a case where a guy got into medical, after scoring 2% in the entrance, on basis of caste. !!!

God Forbid that I will ever fall sick. Or that I have enough money to fly to Europe and get myself treated. :)

DarkStorm said...

>>>> Are Indian Christians comfortable when another country interferes in their matters? Why are they silent?

Nice one patriot. Good post.

Well it seems they are comfortable with western countries. wannabe-westerns.

DarkStorm said...

Well, i think christians are just baselessly crying out discrimination when there never was any, or if it was, it was way too less.
Think we should actually start discriminating. If we are being accused of a crime, let us do the crime. Anyway, we are not going to be declared innocent. So whether we discriminate against christists satanists devilists or not, we are guilty. So let us do what we are guilty of. We get the punishment first, and later we get to do the crime :)

Anonymous said...

>>>> Are Indian Christians comfortable when another country interferes in their matters? Why are they silent?

Good one Indian Patriot. That traitorous bastard Dilip D'Souza who writes columns in Rediff, actually called for the US and other western countries to invade India after the 2002 Gujarat riots.

Anand Rajadhyaksha said...

Actually, any dalit who converts to any religion oher than Hinduism automatically becomes a non-dalit and thus should have no claims on the benefits s/he was entitled to as a Dalit.

We have two points here: if s/he says s/he is changing his religion to cast off what s/he perceives as a stigma of being a HINDU Dalit, then after conversion s/he is no longer a Dalit as in his / her new religion of choice, he is no longer socially downtrodden on the grounds of his birth. No SC benefits then.

If, on the other hand, s/he says the change is for a better economic status, we have a clear case of luring / inducement.


Anonymous said...


I must warn you that what will follow is a rambling of sorts, so I have not bothered to check for spelling or grammar. Just squeezing in time between our daily professional and personal chores. I regret in advance for any misgivings I might cause, to any of you, in echoing my thoughts.

The problems that Hindus seem to be distracted by today, can be broadly classified under a few categories:

1. Brahmin versus non-brahmins
2. Upper castes versus lower castes

While all of us agree that casteism is a challenge, the real and immediate problem is socio-economic:

1. Population control
2. Unemployment
3. Illiteracy
4. Poverty

The 400M+ Hindus in rural India, in 525 districts, in over 600K villages, who are suffering from these socio-economic factors are easy prey for chistists and islamists. These predators have proliferated a propaganda of hate in these far and wide areas to sustain thier vested agendas. If we solve these then there will be significantly less christist and or islamist problems in india.

Having said this, we must also recognize that social transformation requires the coming together of Hindu NGOs, media groups, political groups and a network of well meaning "Bhumiputras" (meaning sons of the soil, from these locales), to work tirelessly and selflessly to alleviate the pains of these down-trodden. Remember any poor and suffering "non-brahmin" is equally worthy of our concern as a poor and suffering "brahmin". "Jaati gal illayadi papa, kulam thazhthi uyathisolal pavaum papa.." (Bharathi said, there are no jaathis, only kulams and making a prejudiced distinction on kula is wrong -- he has written this beautiful song in the form of instructing a child)

When Yudhistra asks Vidura for advice on the responsibilities of a king, one of the first advice he gets is to take care of the basic needs of the people, namely water, food, clothing and modest housing -- this is so true in all societies, in all times. When the basic needs are met then it is easier to get the attention of the people. This is what the christists and islamists employ to convert -- provide basic needs, gain attention then show them the love of "thier true God" and in time we have converts!

Why do I say all this. Well, I am involved in service; in my own small way, I contribute, time, money (and in other forms) to the cause of the upliftment of the millions in rural India without distinction to religion or caste --I have been involved since 1998. For various reasons I do not want to disclose my identity but I have contributed to many of the following organizations (besides reasonable contributions to the armed services of India).

My suggestion is to work tirelessly and contribute towards organizations that are doing yeomen service, namely, Ammachi, Sri Sri Ravishankar, Swami Dhayananda Saraswati, Saibaba, Shankarcharyas of Kanchi, Arya Samaj, and other organizations so that we have an all-India coverage. Pledge your time, money, canvass your friends and family and help grow the samaj! We need sama (reason), dhana (charity), bedha (politics and negotiation) and danda (fight) (in that order -- please do not ridicule any of these if your own preference is not for any of them). Let us recognize that inherently Hindu Dharma is secular and democratic, which guarantees liberty, freedom and justice for all. We must also tirelessly work towards cleansing our Hindu society of casteism.

We can visit all these blogs and talk and vent out our frustrations but the problems will not be solved if there is no concrete action. Let us resolve to work with Hindu organizations that we trust in and contribute to sustain the very foundation of our society Hindu Dharma -- let that not become a casualty to hate propaganda.

Please pardon this bandwidth and the sermon, if you will. I mean well for our nation and its people. I reached a conclusion long time ago -- there is no way I can reason with those that are unreasonable but I can help contribute towards the welfare of those who are suffering, perhaps that is better use of my time, money and life.

I look forward to a Hindu rennaisance, where we can manage our own religious affairs, where we can bring the love and value of Hindu Dharma to every household in India and across the world. Not that other religions are bad -- all have very profound messages but I believe that it is only the Hindu Dharma and indigenous faiths such as Sikh Dharma, Buddha dharma, Mahaveera dharma that really practice what they preach. Let us recognize that all are inherently good except that many are prone to manipulation by the industries of christism and islamism, let us work to convert the minds of all from physical to spiritual, then there will be "Shanti, Shanti, Shantihi..." across our world, our common home.

saras said...

I wonder how in a so-called secular country, you could have religion-based reservations! It's like having the cake and also eat it.

DarkStorm said...

Very right Anon, (posted by Anonymous : 11/14/2005 1:33 PM ),

It starts right at the individual level. Apart from these, I do the following.

1. Never do any business with any jehadi. No buying from jehadi shops or hiring jehadi autorickshaws/taxis. I rather go hungry than buy from a jehadi restaurant open at 12 midnight. Or look for some other place.

2. I rarely watch Bollywood movies. Just about once in 2-3 months, and that too pirated CDs. :D. Actually encourage piracy of Bollywood movies, until they stop their links with the underworld. I distribute copies of Bollywood movie CDs which my friends get, but I dont watch them, unless I get a good review.
All that movie money, that you pay for watching, goes to the Jehadi underworld, and routed to Kashmir terrorists. We are basically paying them to kill us.

Better to pay American studios for better quality and less nautanki. :)

Also, has anyone really noticed how Bollywood desperately tries to show itself secular. Swamis and pandits are villainous. The odd jehadi slum-dweller is the heros friend. The villain is almost always Hindu, except few like Gadar(i did not watch Gadar though).

3. Stop listening to Paki and jehadi music. these people abuse the very music legacy they have inherited. I once smashed and flushed away my college roomies ghazal CDs down the John, when he was not around. Should not have done that, his money, his discs, and I somehow feel bad about it, but I did not like to listen to it, when he was playing them. Better he had used headphones.

There are many such trivial ways.

4. Last and most important, Stop believing in caste, no matter what so-called Brahmins or so-called Dalits say. Stop believing in caste.

DarkStorm said...

I earlier said.
>>>>> 3. Stop listening to Paki and jehadi music. these people abuse the very music legacy they have inherited. I once smashed and flushed away my college roomies ghazal CDs down the John, when he was not around. Should not have done that, his money, his discs, and I somehow feel bad about it, but I did not like to listen to it, when he was playing them. Better he had used headphones.

Actually, later when he found some of his discs missing, he asked me about it. I told him I came to the room just a few minutes ago and found the room unlocked. He had a habit of often forgetting to lock the door. Well, he never suspected a thing, and took them for stolen.

saras said...

Darkstorm is very right. Most of the Hindi films are funded by the Islamic terrorists and so the money you pay to watch a Hindi movie goes into the jehadi coffers, which in turn will be used to detroy the country. So the moral is: if you watch Hindi movies, then you are automatically an anti-national.

Sane thing goes with the cricket. In addition to destroying all other sports in this country, cricket makes all the cricket fans an anti-national, Most of the matches are fixed up somewhere in the Middle East by some jehadi like Abu Salem or Dawood Ibrahim. If you encourage Indian cricket by buying tickets to watch a match or even watching it on TV, then you are doing a great disservice to the nation unknowingly. Moreover, it is a greta waste of time.

DarkStorm said...

Yes, right Saras. Cricket too. I dont know about now, but earlier, Sharjah was the betting center. (Surprisingly, islamic law probibits gambling :D )

It was during the Sharjah days that money was laundered from cricket. Also, since Sharjah closed down, (no matches take place there now), the sheikh started a TV channel called Ten sports. Ten sports is a Jehadi channel, and it is financed/owned by Taj Entertainment Network/that shady cricket shekh of sharjah.

Avoid ten sports.