Saturday, November 19, 2005

gautam sen: ugly american in the subcontinent

nov 19th

gautam is the first person to articulate publicly the elephant in the living room: the american fundamentalists' sinister plan to convert indians wholesale.

good article. gautam is knowledgeable and cuts to the chase.

64 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is one of the best articles I've read in a while. Gautam pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is the plan---convert as many Indians as possible.

Korea has been completely Christianized to the core. Koreans have disavowed their glorious Confucian/Buddist past. It's an absolute and utter tragic shame.

san said...

Rajeev, read what Google may be up to:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20051117.html

This portable datacenter idea is something that Indians should latch onto. This thing could help get rural India online even faster.

Is Google borrowing a page from Wal-mart in a take-no-prisoners strategy?

Anonymous said...

This link doesn't link to a Gautam Sen article, but some Joginder Singh article. Can someone please clarify what the actual link is?

Anonymous said...

Since the link changed, here is the full text of the article:

Ugly American in South Asia

Gautam Sen

The idea that India and Pakistan comprise a hyphenated dyad for US policy makers is devoid of meaning. It implies US failure to recognise India's claims to special moral and material worth by unjustly equating it with Pakistan.




Far from placing both on the same level, it is Pakistan that has always enjoyed US short and medium term priority. India may have a role to play in future US geopolitical plans in Asia, but on-going US policy suggests indifference to compelling Indian interests. It might also be noted in passing that the US would be foolish to pick a serious quarrel with China, which would be an unnecessary distraction and has avoided doing so.



This is why after every outrage committed by a Pakistan, with which India is supposedly unfairly treated as a hyphenated equal, what India gets is ritual sympathy. But it is almost as if India was the unfortunate victim of periodic natural calamities. Pakistan can evidently carry on with its merry murder of kafirs to satisfy jihadi blood lust.



And its invariable denial of involvement, cajoled by the US no doubt, merely prevents private Pakistani gloating becoming too uncomfortably public. Unfortunately, most Pakistanis, including the educated, gloat over India's ineffectual thrashing about after each bloody act.



They have accurately concluded that the only leverage they have against India is terror, which works a treat in the bargain. In the past decade, Indian governments have confirmed Pakistani cynicism by desperately clinging to the chimera of peace despite every outrage. Indians seem well and truly tangled up in their dhotis in bloodthirsty Pakistani eyes.



The US would surely benefit from the emergence of a strong India in Asia. But its strength can only grow in the unlikely event that Indian domestic politics escape the self-defeating re-distributive competitive trap into which its has fallen. A strong India would constitute a balancing mechanism to curb excessive Chinese ambitions. Alongside Japan, Vietnam and other Southeast Asian countries, India would comprise the ring of deterrence.



The US would be the major beneficiary of this power equation because neither Asian group would wish US strength to tip the scales in favour of their rival. The European Union has no collective policy and while individual countries can be envious none is foolish enough to truly oppose the US. Russia is geographically remote and without the naval capacity to chart a course in Asia independent of its location.



However, the short to medium-term US policy in South Asia is to protect Pakistan from Indian retaliation for menacing the very survival of the Indian Union. In addition to threatening Indian governments directly, the US has mobilised its numberless surrogates in India to chant a chorus of peace. The media and largely procured intelligentsia show remarkable unity in their unwavering demand for peace at any cost. In this context, the Left-Right divide is completely spurious because India's Leftist intelligentsia has collaborated with the CIA ever since the heady days of their conjoint defence of Yahya Khan in 1971.



Of course the Left prefers to have their instructions transmitted via Beijing. This has proved entirely feasible since current Sino-US cooperation over South Asia remains robust though dark clouds of competition between them loom in the distant horizon. The cynicism of US policy in South Asia is the unavoidable hallmark of power politics just as Indian displays of hurt and sentimentality highlight frailty and self-doubt.



Worst of all, the failure of India's indigenous nuclear weapons' programme has cowed the Indian state and its armed forces. It is Pakistan that has acquired the upper hand because it is capable of delivering a crippling nuclear strike. Indian vulnerability was exposed during operation Parakram when a Pakistani missile test forced India to step down.



Both civil society and the state have been rendered impotent in the face of the most violent onslaught against India, the first prostituting itself, the other hog-tied by policy error and hubris.

Besieged by multiple revolts within and terror from without the Indian state is a mere shadow, solemnly engaged only with the inane and irrelevant. Mahatma Gandhi advised European Jewry to commit collective suicide rather than resist Hitler, a tragic homily his own are espousing with deadly conviction. The refrain of peace at all costs is likely to become India's own funeral dirge.



Nevertheless, ostensible US support for India's nuclear energy ambitions may constitute a breakthrough, but only barely. The Indo-US accord merely promises to lift an unfair embargo though, crucially, it will effectively mean India's de facto recognition as the sixth nuclear power. The lifting of the nuclear fuel embargo is a valuable outcome for India, but there is widespread hostility to the Indo-US accord in India itself.



So deep is Indian mistrust of the US, which the US cannot seem to restrain itself from stoking, many Indians suspect something ominous is afoot. And every Pakistani atrocity confirms Indian misgivings, as disingenuous expressions of US regret come thick and fast because it is suspected even mosquitoes in Pakistan require US permission to bite.



However, the Indo-US nuclear energy accord could be a part of its long-term Asian security strategy to strengthen India. It is evidently not synchronised with the short-and medium US policy to satiate jihadi lust for Indian blood.



There is a possible sinister explanation that could reconcile the contradiction between the apparent US desire for a strong India while remaining complicit in letting it bleed severely in the interim. The US wishes to create a strong India, but not in its present social and religious incarnation. US governmental agencies and a myriad Christian churches, which maintain a fictional distance but always collude to achieve national goals, are seeking to create a large constituency of converts in India.



The aim is to ensure that the empowered India that might emerge in the future with US help is one loyal to it. This is why various US agencies are assiduous in their concern for every Indian community that might have a possible grievance. These agencies have corrupted impecunious Indians and greedy media proprietors, getting them to incessantly propagate the message of caste, gender, religious and every type of imagined division.



The defence of Muslims rights is a useful decoy as well to accentuate the campaign though Muslims are streaming into India and enjoy a better life in it than any other place on earth. The conspirators are confident that Indians, though mostly illiterate, remain wary of Islam and will choose Christianity.



The objective is to persuade discontented groups that their rights are being violated and worth fighting for. Thus every possible societal fault line in India is carefully examined, catalogued by researchers and cultivated to ensure that they become gaping wounds. The obvious candidate to blame is upper caste Indians because they are an easily identifiable scapegoat to vilify for every affliction.



This is the group that clearly needs to be disenfranchised politically for any foreign power to dominate India. And Christian evangelism is the ideological instrument to ensure their permanent annihilation. Such a radical transformation in national religious identity has been achieved in recent memory in the Republic of Korea, which is now largely Christian. It is failing abysmally in China, which crushes foreign proselytisers mercilessly. India's fate hangs in the balance.

Anonymous said...

Koreans have disavowed their glorious Confucian/Buddist past. It's an absolute and utter tragic shame.

No religion: 46%
Christianity:27.3%
Buddhist: 25.3%

(Stats from 2003 available at Wikipedia)

Overwhelmingly Christian? I don't think so. Overwhelmingly atheistic/agnostic, yes - which is of course what you would get with the "neo-liberal" ideology. ;)

Anonymous said...

Well, adopting Christianity will lead to another ideology sooner or later because eventually the individual's reason comes into play and realizes that what it the individual has gotten into is utter nonsense. The most convenient ideology for such an individual to then adopt is probably atheism/no-religion.

Anonymous said...

gautam is knowledgeable and cuts to the chase

Yes, He would make a great fiction writer.

This article espouses the now prevalent "neo-liberal" theory that the "security" of India rests with the "upper castes". It goes on to blame the US-Pak axis for all the terror that is unleashed in India, the "left" is taking orders from US via China/Russia or whoever the latest Mitrokhin is, the "right" is staunchly patriotic and made up of the "upper castes". Ho Hum. Tell me, what's new - Gautam Sen added his voice to the cacophony. Great another one bites the dust. No analysis, nothing. Another pedestrian article.

Anonymous said...

The most convenient ideology for such an individual to then adopt is probably atheism/no-religion

Well that's interesting, considering that the people were originally Confucian/Buddhist, why shouldn't they go back to Confucianism/Buddhism? Why would they "choose" atheism/no-religion?

Anonymous said...

You have justified nothing you said, and just ranted on.

So you're saying that Indian "upper-castes" supply Pakistan with nuclear weapons, and not China?

Are you implying that the left in India is going to help the people get out of poverty, as they have clearly been doing since independence (as opposed to selling the country shamelessly to Soviets)?

Are you also saying that it is the Indian "upper-castes" hyphenating India with Pakistan and condoning jehadi mercenaries, as opposed to the US?

If you agree with any of the above, please justify. Otherwise, you have no argument and should learn how to reason before ever logging on to this blog again.

Anonymous said...

Well that's interesting, considering that the people were originally Confucian/Buddhist, why shouldn't they go back to Confucianism/Buddhism? Why would they "choose" atheism/no-religion?

In my opinion, Christianity is just a facade for hedonism sprinkled with a dash of (questionable) virtue for formality. It is only a political organization that claims that all non-members are destined for hell or something (not unlike its twin, Islam).

Once people fall into the trap of Christianity, they get caught into the trap of sense gratification while deluding themselves with some false notion of virtuousness. When they find out that the ideology is half-baked and full of contradiction, they likely choose atheism becuase they have already tasted unparalleled sense gratification, something they can't give up easily. Therefore something like Buddhism, that requires actual virtue and control, is usually out of the question.

Anonymous said...

I agree. This is evident in Europe and the US today, where significant portions of the population, especially youth, are disassociating themselves from Christianity in droves.

san said...

Another anonymoron - no wonder these guys never take a name. Anon, other than advertising your dislike of "upper castes", can you explain exactly what security threats you feel India is facing? Or are the terror attacks figments of the imagination? Is there any reason at all for Indians to feel insecure, pray tell?

How do all these Lefties get internet connections, anyway? They've barely learned to stop dragging their knuckles off the floor, and right away they're online to express their brilliant perspectives.

Anonymous said...

You have justified nothing you said, and just ranted on

Neither have you or Gautam Sen.

So you're saying that Indian "upper-castes" supply Pakistan with nuclear weapons, and not China?

With what "reasoning" did you reach this conclusion? I have never mentioned nuclear weapons in my post.

Are you implying that the left in India is going to help the people get out of poverty, as they have clearly been doing since independence (as opposed to selling the country shamelessly to Soviets)?

The "right" hasn't done anything great either.

Are you also saying that it is the Indian "upper-castes" hyphenating India with Pakistan and condoning jehadi mercenaries, as opposed to the US?

In a way, yes. The obsession for successive govts. has always been Pakistan. And whenever a State (left or right) has failed to protect its citizens over many years, it is a failed state. There is no use blaming some external entities for problems of our own.

If you agree with any of the above, please justify. Otherwise, you have no argument and should learn how to reason before ever logging on to this blog again

So should you, before spouting off. I am not sure you are thinking very clearly. If you have any issues, state your reasoning and learn to debate.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, Christianity is just a facade for hedonism

Surprisingly, I have the same opinion of Hinduism too. Hinduism is paganism and hedonism combined. Western Neo-pagans, with whom Nizhal Yoddha thinks he has some links, are neo-pagans because of their love for hedonism more than their love for nature. If this is the "reason" for adopting neo-paganism and Hinduism, then it is rather weak.

But you missed my point entirely - Gautam Sen's article clearly implied that people converted to Christianity in Korea. Obviously, before conversion, they belonged to some religion (or no religion) which Sen (or you) claim(s) to be Buddhism/Confucianism. The current religious affiliation of Koreans (as late as 2003) is given above, of which, an overwhelming number of Koreans profess to have no religion. Since Christianity is on the increase there (according to Gautam Sen), I doubt, that 46% of them suddenly dropped of the "religious groups" - it is more likely that they did not grow up with any faith and profess to "no religion" or the bigger question and the more interesting point with the advent of Christianity (read Western ideas), people in Korea started questioning their own faith and realized that the age old tradition of Buddhism/Confucianism had no "reasonable" basis either. Considering the parallels in India, this of course, is quite scary for the Hindu right. So for all the talk of "reason", what Hindus are really afraid of is again "reason" and "progress".

Anonymous said...

In a way, yes. The obsession for successive govts. has always been Pakistan. And whenever a State (left or right) has failed to protect its citizens over many years, it is a failed state. There is no use blaming some external entities for problems of our own.


So you are implying that we should take military action against Pakistan, because that is clearly the only means left to "protect our citizens". In that case, I agree with you. If you're not, then you must be implying using your superior "reasoning" that the "upper-castes" somehow carry out the terrorist attacks in India.

Of course, I don't think India is a failed state. We have evolved spectacularly since our foreign invasions began to be successful around about a 1000 years ago. This is despite malign foreign rule, as well as an incompetent and an even predatory state since independence.

And in the earlier post you made, quoted here -- This article espouses the now prevalent "neo-liberal" theory that the "security" of India rests with the "upper castes". It goes on to blame the US-Pak axis for all the terror that is unleashed in India, the "left" is taking orders from US via China/Russia or whoever the latest Mitrokhin is, the "right" is staunchly patriotic and made up of the "upper castes". Ho Hum. Tell me, what's new - Gautam Sen added his voice to the cacophony. Great another one bites the dust. No analysis, nothing. Another pedestrian article. -- the only statement that might come close to being seen as "reasoning" is the statement "Ho Hum", which tells us a lot about your debating ability.

Anonymous said...

Anon, other than advertising your dislike of "upper castes", can you explain exactly what security threats you feel India is facing? Or are the terror attacks figments of the imagination? Is there any reason at all for Indians to feel insecure, pray tell?

San - I can barely read and write, but I found I could type.;) After all, with my knuckles on the ground and performing levitations (commonly called yoga), I can now do a headstand and type too.

Are you suggesting that Gautam Sen had all the security challenges that India faces, wrong? Perhaps you would care to examine in dispassionate detail why you think Gautam Sen's article is so great? I am curious, what "information" did you get out of this article?

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, Christianity is just a facade for hedonism

Surprisingly, I have the same opinion of Hinduism too. Hinduism is paganism and hedonism combined. Western Neo-pagans, with whom Nizhal Yoddha thinks he has some links, are neo-pagans because of their love for hedonism more than their love for nature. If this is the "reason" for adopting neo-paganism and Hinduism, then it is rather weak.


Of course, your opinion is again unjustified. You're simply using words your western (or islamic?) grandmasters gave you - "paganism" etc. - but not making any concrete point.

Christians do not view vegetarianism (a form of compassion) highly, and do not consider the rampant consumption of alcohol lowly - this is purely sense gratification, or hedonism, not condemned by the so-called religion, rather protected by it and termed as "virtue".

Anonymous said...

But you missed my point entirely - Gautam Sen's article clearly implied that people converted to Christianity in Korea. Obviously, before conversion, they belonged to some religion (or no religion) which Sen (or you) claim(s) to be Buddhism/Confucianism. The current religious affiliation of Koreans (as late as 2003) is given above, of which, an overwhelming number of Koreans profess to have no religion. Since Christianity is on the increase there (according to Gautam Sen), I doubt, that 46% of them suddenly dropped of the "religious groups" - it is more likely that they did not grow up with any faith and profess to "no religion" or the bigger question and the more interesting point with the advent of Christianity (read Western ideas), people in Korea started questioning their own faith and realized that the age old tradition of Buddhism/Confucianism had no "reasonable" basis either. Considering the parallels in India, this of course, is quite scary for the Hindu right. So for all the talk of "reason", what Hindus are really afraid of is again "reason" and "progress".


With significant economic progress made in South Korea over the past quarter century, when people were confronted with the hedonistic Christianity, the concept of choosing to use their newly-found wealth towards blind sense gratification while pretending to stay within the false confounds of so-called "virtue" seemed (and may still seem) attractive to the population. Of course, the people don't always have a choice: crafty missionaries have very devious methods of converting a gullible population - which you probably already know - bent up as you are on talking against your own civilization.

This is just what Lord Krishna refers to in the Bhagavad Gita: that which first seems like nectar and ends up becoming like poison.

Anonymous said...

So you are implying that we should take military action against Pakistan, because that is clearly the only means left to "protect our citizens".

Yes. Exactly how many Indian lives do we need to lose before the govt. takes any action? No state in the world has put up with a situation like this without military action.

As for the "upper castes" and terrorism in India - it has been going on for years in Bihar, much before terrorism in Kashmir.

-- the only statement that might come close to being seen as "reasoning" is the statement "Ho Hum", which tells us a lot about your debating ability.

Don't flatter yourself. My post was a precis of Gautam Sen's article. My question to you is what is new in that article? He has blamed everybody and everything except the national apathy and told us The objective is to persuade discontented groups that their rights are being violated and worth fighting for. Thus every possible societal fault line in India is carefully examined, catalogued by researchers and cultivated to ensure that they become gaping wounds. The obvious candidate to blame is upper caste Indians because they are an easily identifiable scapegoat to vilify for every affliction.

But this is exactly the modus operandi of the Hindu right too - they are persuading discontented upper caste groups that their rights are worth fighting for. And for many years, even after Independence, the blame does lie with the upper caste Indians because the jobs were given out on the basis of caste - not ability.

Anonymous said...

With significant economic progress made in South Korea over the past quarter century, when people were confronted with the hedonistic Christianity, the concept of choosing to use their newly-found wealth towards blind sense gratification while pretending to stay within the false confounds of so-called "virtue" seemed (and may still seem) attractive to the population. Of course, the people don't always have a choice: crafty missionaries have very devious methods of converting a gullible population - which you probably already know - bent up as you are on talking against your own civilization

So now you are blaming the wealth and economic progress of South Korea for people "converting" to "no religion". :) Are you claiming that you cannot be rich and virtuous? The "crafty" missionaries, though, influenced only 27% of the population using those "devious" methods. But thank you for proving my point.

Anonymous said...

No. My point is that you do not have any data saying that those in Korea who claim to be of "no religion" were Buddhist immediately prior to atheism. I believe there was the Christian transition because Christianity statistically leads to atheism eventually (see my earlier posts).

Anonymous said...

As for the "upper castes" and terrorism in India - it has been going on for years in Bihar, much before terrorism in Kashmir.

What nonsense! If the "upper-castes" (the group of people you blame all your troubles on probably thanks to the devious missionaries who converted your weak-willed ancestors) are the ones who promote "terrorism" in Bihar, then how come Bihar is the most poor and lawless state in the country after being under a pro-lower-caste government for so many years? Shouldn't the "terrorism" have long stopped?

And for many years, even after Independence, the blame does lie with the upper caste Indians because the jobs were given out on the basis of caste - not ability.

More nonsense. You're like a nonsense machine. After independence, the entire country was plagued with quotas everywhere for "lower-castes", "scheduled castes", and "scheduled tribes", which turned the country into an incompetent economy instead of a meritocracy, which would have propelled us unimaginably. It is the so-called "upper-castes" who had to work much harder to obtain a position than they would have without these quotas.

I'm getting the feeling that you entertain the missionaries who regularly knock at your door far too much. I can only feel sad for the racism churches (for example, the Anglican church) shell out for lowly converts like you (separate churches, and even separate cemetaries!).

Anonymous said...

Ha, it's funny. This dull-witted convert doesn't realize that the upper castes that he so complains about have only changed form to the much lesser caring Europeans. All he's done is chosen to become a foot soldier in their malignant army.

Anonymous said...

Yup, I hope he realizes that it was they who invented racism - extreme discrimination based on skin colour - and continue it to this day (remember New Orleans?).

Anonymous said...

No. My point is that you do not have any data saying that those in Korea who claim to be of "no religion" were Buddhist immediately prior to atheism. I believe there was the Christian transition because Christianity statistically leads to atheism eventually (see my earlier posts).

So you are claiming that the 46% that professed no religion were actually Christian. In other words at some point of time, South Korea was overwhelmingly Christian and then 46% "converted" to "no religion". In other words, Gautam Sen is wrong on claims that Christianity was on the rise. The Wikipedia article shows otherwise.

Anonymous said...

...the ones who promote "terrorism" in Bihar, then how come Bihar is the most poor and lawless state in the country after being under a pro-lower-caste government for so many years? Shouldn't the "terrorism" have long stopped?

The reason terrorism has not been rooted out in Bihar is because the upper-castes support terrorism in Bihar and lawlessness is because of the upper-caste gangs that still rape and pillage the lower-castes in Bihar. The govt. of course is powerless to stop them because all the govt. employees can be easily bought.

More nonsense. You're like a nonsense machine.

So are you, Rajeev and Gautam Sen.

After independence, the entire country was plagued with quotas everywhere for "lower-castes", "scheduled castes", and "scheduled tribes", which turned the country into an incompetent economy instead of a meritocracy

It is because of independence and these reservations that the lower-castes can even get educated and participate in this "call center economy". Would you prefer that the lower-castes not be educated at all?

I'm getting the feeling that you entertain the missionaries who regularly knock at your door far too much

I get the feeling that you entertain the RSS Shakha guys far too much too.

Yup, I hope he realizes that it was they who invented racism - extreme discrimination based on skin colour - and continue it to this day (remember New Orleans?).

Wasn't racism an Aryan trait - casteism in India? Did the debacle in New Orleans happen because of racism or govt. incompetence?

Anonymous said...

So you are claiming that the 46% that professed no religion were actually Christian. In other words at some point of time, South Korea was overwhelmingly Christian and then 46% "converted" to "no religion". In other words, Gautam Sen is wrong on claims that Christianity was on the rise. The Wikipedia article shows otherwise.


Christianity is on the rise in Korea because the not all Buddhists have tasted the forbidden (and poisoned) fruit yet. Kali-Yug has yet to show more colour. And Wikipedia must be a reliable source, you know, with all those random people posting on it each day. The most determined poster (you?) wins!

Anonymous said...

And Wikipedia must be a reliable source, you know, with all those random people posting on it each day. The most determined poster (you?) wins!

Ha Ha Ha So now an open source encyclopedia is wrong, never your argument :)) What else are you going to blame this on? What source will you accept - the RSS supplied Khaki encyclopedia written by a bunch of pseudo-historians without any peer-review? :)) I thought "open-source" projects were the epitome of democracy and truth. Incidentally, the article does have references at the bottom that you can verify. And you still don't have any proof for your position.

Anonymous said...

The reason terrorism has not been rooted out in Bihar is because the upper-castes support terrorism in Bihar and lawlessness is because of the upper-caste gangs that still rape and pillage the lower-castes in Bihar. The govt. of course is powerless to stop them because all the govt. employees can be easily bought.

So you're saying that the "lower-castes" are corrupt and too incompetent to run a government? Doesn't that make you and your white masters castist and anti-lower-caste, and therefore hypocrites?

More nonsense. You're like a nonsense machine.

So are you, Rajeev and Gautam Sen.


Well backed-up!

It is because of independence and these reservations that the lower-castes can even get educated and participate in this "call center economy". Would you prefer that the lower-castes not be educated at all?

So you want to remove any chance of a meritocracy in the country and therefore make the whole country casteist etc., with an incompetently functioning economy, and thus beggars of the entire world, which Sonia-supporters like you have done successfully for close to 50 years. You are the one who hates the "lower-castes" because you want to lure them into a false sense of security, both worshipping vice and holding undeserved jobs.

I get the feeling that you entertain the RSS Shakha guys far too much too.

Well, I'm quite proud to say that my ancestry has been continuously Hindu, and not jumped ship the moment a few bread crumbs were thrown at my door.

Wasn't racism an Aryan trait - casteism in India?

There was no such thing as "Aryan" or "Dravidian". Your foolish ancestors have been tricked! Here's a link to the BBC site saying this. You surely believe them, don't you? Or at least you will when they disallow your body to be buried alongside white bodies when you die?

Did the debacle in New Orleans happen because of racism or govt. incompetence?

Funny how the US Republican government becomes incompetent in handling tragedy not during 9/11 when white investment bankers die, but when poor blacks (surely Christian!) die.

Anonymous said...

Ha Ha Ha So now an open source encyclopedia is wrong, never your argument :)) What else are you going to blame this on? What source will you accept - the RSS supplied Khaki encyclopedia written by a bunch of pseudo-historians without any peer-review? :)) I thought "open-source" projects were the epitome of democracy and truth. Incidentally, the article does have references at the bottom that you can verify. And you still don't have any proof for your position.

Wow. The very fact that you cannot conceivably imagine an open-source encyclopedia being wrong or at least biased insults me as one to argue with somebody so naive and oblivious! Was it the same naivety that led your silly ancestors to mistake a childish dogmatic cult for actual religion?

Anonymous said...

It seems that this blog is getting 'sodomized' by a Opus dei militant who belives in Jesus/Thomas myths,and who is well funded by the drug mafias and naxalites.

san said...

Anon, all I heard you do was spout rhetorical questions. Why don't you just speak plainly? (Say: "I feel that X is responsible for Y because of Z")

You say you don't feel the "right" has done anything good for India. Let me speak plainly what I feel it has done.

The right is socially uplifting the masses by providing economic opportunity and jobs, which will lead to upward mobility. The Left (like you) are keeping the people poor and backward in order to keep milking their sense of greivance and harvest their votes. The right seeks to eliminate their deprivation in the medium/long term by implementing economic reforms which will require sacrifice in the short/medium so as to help people attain better lives.

Please give me an example of one country on the planet which has uplifted its people through socialist hogwash? There isn't one -- because socialism is a fiction. It doesn't deliver upliftment, it only keeps people unhappy and poor. And the socialists like this type of fake prescription medicine, because instead of curing the patient, it keeps them addicted to the drug.

Give me an example of your shining social upliftment plz, before you babble on any further.

blackpanther said...

here is u.s. government site giving statistics on korea:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/skorea.html
Religions: Christianity, 49%; Buddhism, 47%; Confucianism, 3%; Other, 1%

now the resident bible thumper would say wiki is more reliable because it is democratic or just silently disappear.

it is well know fact that church underplays the percentage of christians.

blackpanther said...

a korean newspaper stating that korea has 48% christians(april 19, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200404/200404190016.html

and now for some links and church documents:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_anderson/20050105.html
http://www.pbs.org/hiddenkorea/religion.htm
http://webapps.calvin.edu/worship/stories/korean.php

u.s. department of state:
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2800.htm

a few minutes of google and the information is available. another standard church practise of crying about persecution is also very evident in south korea.

DarkStorm said...

>>>> San - I can barely read and write, but I found I could type.;) After all, with my knuckles on the ground and performing levitations (commonly called yoga), I can now do a headstand and type too.


Sounds like mitra is back , but now he is afraid to use his ID... hehe

Kaunteya said...

The Daily Pioneer is as close as it gets to the viewpoint of the so called right in India. And it is probably the only newspaper in that hemishpere. It is sad that its website is not managed so well. I hope the management of that paper realises that online news is a big thing and there's a huge potential for conservative readership in and outside India. Most of the online readers are forced to either go to Sonia's puppet TOI or Commie's mouthpiece The Hindu or their lesser siblings in the media. I am sure if Pioneer focuses on improving its website it will soon overtake even TOI in the number of hits, thereby making huge strides in revenue (I read somewhere that it is a loss making newspaper)
It has some very decent columnists and has at times exposed the current Govt with very strong editorials. But it does not have enough readership to make a difference.
For example look at how NDTV is putting a spin on Volcker Report lately, seeing its two favourite parties in a dock. It says that NDA knew about this scandal and still did not work on it, subtly impling that NDA is as much to blame. NDTV is a master of spin.
We need a counter balance somewhere for this kind of proprganda.
Daily Pioneer can be an answer to this if it can make a more presentable website and improve its lot. We are in a desperate need of channelising the rightwing argument before the intelligentsia on this side is totally pillaged.

Anonymous said...

Yes mitra is back as anon. He is afraid to use his id, the coward! It was fun watching him repeatedly getting gang-raped by members here. Should remind him of the hardships his wife has to undergo when he peddles her at marina beach.

Anonymous said...

@kaunteya, whats wrong with the website for the Daily Pioneer? I dont see much wrong except that people dont go to it enough.

Ravi Krishna said...


Worst of all, the failure of India's indigenous nuclear weapons' programme has cowed the Indian state and its armed forces. It is Pakistan that has acquired the upper hand because it is capable of delivering a crippling nuclear strike. Indian vulnerability was exposed during operation Parakram when a Pakistani missile test forced India to step down.



Can any kind soul explain what the hell is the author talking about. Does he mean that in 2002 we did not have any nuclear arms to counter pakistan. Or am I missing something.

thanks.

KapiDhwaja said...

Ravi Krishna, you are right. The autjor doesn't know what he is talking about, when it comes to our Nuke capability. One Paki missile test didn't deter us. Infact I dont even remember any Paki test at that time. We all saw Musharraf publicly pee on his brown pants, when we were about to attack him. You would have seen his Jan 12 2002 speech and another one in May. It was at American pressure/promises that we stopped short of attacking. We have enough Nukes & the means of delivery to set every square inch of Paki territory on fire. The converse is not true. As Air commodore Jasjit Singh said, all we need is a bullock cart to deliver Nukes to Pakland.

Ravi Krishna said...

KapiDhwaja,

That makes sense :-).

I am surprised that Rajeev Srinivasan chose to put this crock of dung here and even more surprising is the debates going on. This topic is best ignored.

Niketan said...

Earlier REdiff was a good news website that gave the complete perspective. But of late even their standards have deteriorated. I agree about the Pioneer. Their online content is very badly managed. The links to the articles almost never work. Many times I have followed a link only to land up at another column/newsbit.

Anonymous said...

The very fact that you cannot conceivably imagine an open-source encyclopedia being wrong or at least biased insults me as one to argue with somebody so naive and oblivious! Was it the same naivety that led your silly ancestors to mistake a childish dogmatic cult for actual religion?

Interestingly, the same point was raised when the author of this blog was touting his "knowledge" by quoting Wikipedia. So when it comes to St. Thomas and anything against Christianity, the Wikipedia is this shining democratic "open-source" model to be emulated but when it does say something against your very cretinous ideas, the Wikipedia is suddenly "biased". Now that is "democracy" and "open-source" for you. Appears to me you are incredibly naive and have no proof.

Black Panther, good job on Google but the stats on Wikipedia are from the South Korean Govt. Links are available at the bottom of the article I quoted, unless you keep insisting that your naive idiotic self suddenly trusts the MainStream Media that you rail against. The stats you quoted cannot be backed up. As for the puerile and juvenile "well-known" facts - back it up, if you can :) Explain to me why a church would have to underreport its "converts"? "another standard church practise of crying about persecution is also very evident in south korea" - yup which is why Christianity is gaining in popularity, never mind that they actually stood up to the Japanese. (Or do you think if you say such things the Japanese will not invest in India? tsk Tsk.)

san, you are a complete moron - most of the Scandinavia, Australia, Canada and UK are founded on a socialistic ethos and have a higher standard of living than the US. So is China - it may behoove you to atleast read what they have achieved. Despite what you and Rajeev think, India can never, ever catch up to them. It pains your sorry ass that you are getting your butts kicked by a socialistic, communist country. Now why was the BJP kicked out of power when "India" was "shining", you dumb nitwit? So eat your heart out. And if the "right" is so great, why are you against the "right" in US?

Anonymous said...

No one has even HEARD of the Pioneer in India. Only the Brahminist wing of the NRIs read the rag--Sandhya Jain's anachronistic fulminations against the US and what not, and her pathological obsession with the Pope. Its not even in the top five in Delhi.

Anonymous said...

Interestingly, the same point was raised when the author of this blog was touting his "knowledge" by quoting Wikipedia. So when it comes to St. Thomas and anything against Christianity, the Wikipedia is this shining democratic "open-source" model to be emulated but when it does say something against your very cretinous ideas, the Wikipedia is suddenly "biased". Now that is "democracy" and "open-source" for you. Appears to me you are incredibly naive and have no proof.

People have already quoted a bunch of far more official sources to disprove your Wikipedia nonsense and show that you are naive, just like your ancestors who mistook a belligerent cult for a religion.

Explain to me why a church would have to underreport its "converts"? "another standard church practise of crying about persecution is also very evident in south korea" - yup which is why Christianity is gaining in popularity, never mind that they actually stood up to the Japanese. (Or do you think if you say such things the Japanese will not invest in India? tsk Tsk.)

Christianity is gaining in popularity? I thought Christianity was on the wane in the West with European and American kids far to aware now to fall for a witch-burning cult. Or are you pulling this out of your favorite Wikipedia sources again - something you undoubtedly typed on there yourself?

The "church" might underreport it's converts , because believe it or not, some people actually think that cults are actually harmful to society (gasp!). Your genetic naivety at play again.

san, you are a complete moron - most of the Scandinavia, Australia, Canada and UK are founded on a socialistic ethos and have a higher standard of living than the US. So is China - it may behoove you to atleast read what they have achieved. Despite what you and Rajeev think, India can never, ever catch up to them. It pains your sorry ass that you are getting your butts kicked by a socialistic, communist country. Now why was the BJP kicked out of power when "India" was "shining", you dumb nitwit? So eat your heart out. And if the "right" is so great, why are you against the "right" in US?

Wow, oh Great Economist (Mitra?), so you're saying that not providing incentive for people to do work will propel economies forward? And you hold war-torn "Scandinavia" as your best example? You must really have done your research! More inherited idiocy!

san said...

Mitra, what are you raving about? Since when is Canada a socialist country? Bear in mind that whatever welfare state it does practice is offset by its cross-border trading proximity to USA, as well as its extreme abundance of natural resources. Australia likewise has abundant natural resources. Scandinavia has trading proximity to rest of Europe. India just doesn't have those things. Hey, I'd love it if India had Norway's oil kitty, but it doesn't. Indians have to work to make money, not simply pump it out of the ground. BJP was kicked out because only the urban centres were shining, and that left a lot of the country out. But Congress isn't bringing any fabulous wealth to anyone, and they're going to suffer the anti-incumbency backlash in their turn. So India has a limping gait -- one good leg pulls it forward, then the bad leg shifts in, then the good leg's turn again, etc, etc.

Concerned said...

Although this is off-topic, it's time someone brought this up. Why do many Indian columnists, politicians and reporters misuse the words 'cynical' and 'cynicism'? I think the words they're looking for are 'hypocritical' and 'hypocrisy'. This may seem like a minor point but when our politicians speak incorrect English on the global stage, it projects a very bad image!

Oh and I wish they'd stop terming every terrorist attack as "dastardly". Nobody in the real world uses archaic language like that. Our so-called leaders need to wisen up and learn to speak proper English!!! If they can't, then let them appoint a qualified translator who can skip the jargon.

blackpanther said...

not suprising how this mitrakhin can keep ranting even when confronted with evidence. mitra, jeevansaathi - they all sound so comforting like socialism, AID, ASHA etc.
everybody believes south korea is christian majority rejecting that statistics. meanwhile you keep appreciating the emperor's clothes.

doubtinggaurav said...

I propose that all the future troll of this blog be addressed as Mitra :-)
This will be tribute of readers of this blog to nonsensical rhetoric spouted by Mitra and his kin.

DarkStorm said...

>>> I propose that all the future troll of this blog be addressed as Mitra :-)


hi Gaurav, this is mitra who is trolling. the very same exact posting style, the same language, the same head in the sand stance on everything. The same self loathing. the same entertainment. :))

also, a troll will always post to cause maximum damage. and the posts are almost always without logic or facts. If they find one fact in their favour, they will ignore 10 other facts.

Kaunteya said...

Time to rejoice; atleast for the sake of Bihar. Forget Mitra-Phitras for time being. Their messiah Lalu just got a huge drubbing.
Hopefully Nitish Kumar, a qualified Mechanical Engineer, would bring about some positive change in that state.

S said...

The ones with brains screwed by macaulay specialize in producing anti-hindu literature as following, it is safe to ignore that thought

The following is belief system of christian fundamentalists of old era. SOme of their slaves in India also have been trained to wage jehad in this line.

Conversion is pretty serious, the jehadis thus produced try to defend their identity with 2 cents of logic they have been taught, and are quite vicious against the unconverted.

I think we should have names in this blog, it is difficult to know who is posting. The anonymous option should't be there.



Surprisingly, I have the same opinion of Hinduism too. Hinduism is paganism and hedonism combined.

S said...

I agree, it is Mitrokhin who is posting nonsense. In a post above, he behaves as if Mitrokhin didn't happen. They worship killersd like Mao and Stalin. No sense left in them.

Kaunteya said...

While secular fundamentalist Money Sucker Iyer sleeps , an honest officer of the PSU under his domain is murdered for doing his duty.

Where is The Hindu, TOI, NDTV and the biggest heart-bleeder of em all, Indian Express ?

Having a nice time with their Comrades with scotch and imported cars (oops ! sorry Jyothi Basu jee)

S said...

Kaunteya,
I think it is time we recognize these killers. Mitrokhin is has some sensation in his brain left, when he talks of hindus in terms of cerebral cortex, while hindus have progressed a lot after the independence, even with the neheruvian rule, they haven't yet recognized these killers and Rakhasas. These Rakhsasa have been ruling since days of british imperialism, have slaughtered millions. Still they talk of moral high of secularism. Fortunately, in their most pompus moments, the Rakhasas have left a trail.

Santhosh said...

Yeah disable "Anonymoron" posting.
The argument carries no weight, if there's nobody to stand by it.

san said...

I just want to take a moment to welcome the ouster of Lalu Prasad Yadav from Bihar!

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story1%2Etxt&counter_img=1

Rajeev, surely this event deserves some small comment from you? I'm not Bihari, but I enjoy seeing the Leftists get a nice good kick in the teeth once in awhile. Once less crutch for Sonia to stand upon.

So what are the opinions on Nitish Kumar? Can he do a good job? Will he bring in more development as promised?

Kaunteya said...

Outlook cannot digest Lalu's defeat easily. Check this..

[..] the role of the Election Commission in the NDA victory deserves a special mention [..]
[..] there was virtually no village that this correspondent visited where residents did not complain about the deletion of genuine voters from the electoral rolls -- ranging from 10 to 300 per booth[..]

The Hindu is no less nauseating

infww said...

Summary of the arguments against Rajeev, Gautam, et al.

I know that I am an inferior moron who belongs to an inferior race and White-skinned people are superior. I know this by observing my father and mother and other family members. I insist that Whiter the skin, superior the race and who are you stop me worshipping Sonia Maino? She is intelligent compared to my father and mother. I even follow Xianity and Communists because they have been invented by superior Whites.

The statistics about lower caste people having access to schools before the Brits took over the education system is actually an upper caste conspiracy whereby the 19th century records were fudged.

In New Orleans, there was no racism. How can there be when my beloved White Masters were in charge?

Anonymous said...

Chritian media,their lies, bias and a rape. Their terrorism continues unabated with cop support

http://haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?PageID=219&SKIN=K

Kalyani said...

Kaunteya, is right about Daily Pioneer's website.I too face similar problems; for a long time Sandhya Jain's articles could not be accessed at all.She is one of the best unlike the editor who has a soft corner for hajpayee -hadvani and always spares them the rod.A true well wisher always has to rise up to the occasion ,point out the follies to be rectified.

The superpower converting empire is very sinisterly busy indeed,targeting the Hindus.

Plans are afoot for foreign direct investment in all our nationalised banks.

The entry of foreign investment is to create conditions for ,God forbid, Indian money (Hindus' deposits) in deposit with its banks to be sucked away abroad either as counterflow or through trickery of remittances.

Our own Sri Kanchi Shankracharyar's Matham's accounts were all frozen and much more brazen violations took place.

As is our 'coexisting peace hankering friends's' wont,would feign sympathy with Dhritharaashtran like wringing of hands in poorly disguised glee!

Kalyani said...

Concerned,

If denied access to "dastardly" they have "heinous" (for attacks) and "draconian" (for rules)!

They are doing us a favour, (by default of course) being so predictable and sparing us the ordeal of reading their tripe.

DarkStorm said...

" Nitish Kumar was only an instrument of the upper caste desire to regain the dominant position they once had in Bihar society. " - Outlook page posted by kaunteya.
-------

See how they imply subtly, Nitish kumar victory as upper caste(so called) victory, even when lower caste(so called) voters might have voted for him. also, they imply that nitish kumar employed musclemen(euphemism for goondas) to win the elections, and he might reward them with ministerships.

Well, notice how the subtle use of euphemisms and metaphors, indirect implications, sends out the message while actually avoiding the truth.

Outlook is a known yellow rag, and gained circulation by printing hot models wearing revealing dresses on the last pages. Also, outlook is run by former porn mag editors/journalists ( if they are ), and it shows ;-).

Outlook went as far ahead as to print interviews of terrorists holed up in Kargil, and portrayed them as heroes!!!

Outlook = Typical Muslim run secular commie media piece of bullshit.

DarkStorm said...

>>> also, they imply that nitish kumar employed musclemen(euphemism for goondas) to win the elections, and he might reward them with ministerships


everyone uses "musclemen" in bihar. now an unbiased media will paint both of them , lalu and nitish, as "bad" for using musclemen. indirectly they imply lalu was honest. never read any criticism of lalu for using goondas and having regular criminals as ministers. :)