Sunday, February 08, 2009

DMK on its way to destroy chidambaram temple

feb 8th, 2009

this is one of the holiest temples in tamil nadu, and my personal favorite ever since i saw the brilliant aravindan film "chidambaram".

my heart bleeds at the thought that the crypto-christists are about to destroy this.

hindus are clearly second-class citizens, according to the constitution of india, which creates two classes: non-hindus (superior) and hindus (inferior). otherwise, the dmk should be taking over the velankanni temple (which incidentally is a hindu shrine to vel-ilang-kanni amman, swiped by christists). but the constitution supports the desecration of hindu shrines alone, not of semitic places.


blogger said...

Please read "When is the right time to ask?".

AGworld said...

I always wonder when these things happen -- what are the hindus of TN doing?

Are they sitting,twiddling their thumbs??

If this can go on unchecked, then we only have ourselves to blame.

Calling ourselves victims is not enough.

Itsdifferent said...

The problem I see, not just this issue, in any of the issues are
1. There is no one, less rhetoric, focused on the issue, to lead this or any such issues (Rama Gopalan and others of Hindu Munnani, have unnecessarily made nasty comments and have damaged their own reputation, so any association will get a lot of wrath from common man. The common man is still religious, but will not want to hurt anyone else, not interfere in other religion, or practice, so we need someone who can just concentrate on the issue on hand rather than becoming the so called "community police" (not my word))
2. Fear, there are lot of fear among common people to stand up, and raise an issues, as the party and others running mafia gangs which hurts the family and friends.
3. Therefore, what we need is an organization less of rhetoric, with strong support from most of us to make things right.

murali said...

The Chidambaram temple rose into prominence in the time of later cholas.(c.10th century AD).It was the citadel of Tamil Saivism.Which was 'more indiginous' compared to Vaishnavism which enjoyed more patronage during the earlier pallava rulers.

Vaishnavism had more pan-indian ideals built into it.The resurgent saivism was a tamil revival(while Vaishnavism though popular incorporated northern Bhagavatha ideals).Most importantly Later Cholas were imperial aggressors and aggrandisers against pandyas,cheras,hoysalas,sinhalas etc.They had the strong support of vellalas and kallars.The Chidambaram Dikshitars were the privileged custodians of the Temple which was the chief shrine of Chola emperors.The Peria Puranam of Sekkizhar,the Chola chief minister belongs to this period as also the conflict with Sri Ramanuja which made him flee to Karnataka.

The prestige of Dikshitars is a relic of those times.The temple rituals were left to them.

Today most saivites would rejoice in the return of the temple to Govt control,the successors of the Cholas.

Remember after the Chola decline,the land passed under pandyas,then malik kafur,Vijayanagara etc.While Vijayanagara Empire fostered the temple traditions,Classical Tamil went into decline.Also Telugu Nayaks usurped authority in TN.

The tamil people have long memory.The saivites would like their Chief shrine to be brought under govt control.

Sri Rama and Sri Krishna were born in North India.Vishnu came to the rescue of devas against asuras.The theology of siva has little to do with aryan ethos.Many saivite saints of the 10th century hail Lord Siva as one worshipped by Ravana.Karu sees himself as a descendant of Ravana.Unlike Kerala,with few exceptions almost all tamils (including PC,Baalu,anbumani)are supporters of reservation.They have an inferiority complex vis-a-vis sanskrit which exhibits itself in exaggerated fanatasies about Tamil.(In its own way,Tamil is a great language).Unlike Kerala,sanskrit knowing non-brahmins are negligible in TN.There are many sanskrit words in malayalam.

With chidambaram in TN Govt control,Tamil will be given an exalted place in temple worship.

Perhaps you are aware there has been a simmering controversy over the singing of 'Tevaram' by atheist christist neanderthals to bring innovations in temple traditions.

The temple priests have been accomodative of change yet an atmosphere of bullying and intimidation has built up.The PMK/tamil chauvinist fringe jumped into the fray.Of course,the moderate saivite majority did not support confrontation but even they would welcome change of guard as long overdue.

AGworld said...

Whatever the complexity, if hindus sit still as these things happen, we have only ourselves to blame.

This gandhian turn the other cheek so that both your eyes can be gouged out (to mix metaphors wildly) is a curse that hindus need to shake off.

If we don't, we have only ourselves to blame.

Harish said...

Murali.. whats u r pointless ramble all about?

You have mixed quite a bit of your prejudices (a.k.a Vaishanvism), half baked knowledge of history(a.k.a Aryan ethos) and glee about Chidamabaram being usurped government into so many words. You have the gall to say TN govt is the successor of Chola empire and, shaivities will welcome it.. Can you please refrain from such BS..It is irritating to say the least..

AGWorld... here is the answer to your question as to what Hindus do in TN..

This same gentlemen would be up in arms if the TN govt took "control" of SriRangam..(which is a great Vishnu temple)..

Vaishnavites have a tendency to be gleeeful as long as Shiva temples are would not be wrong if you think that they actually encourage usurpation..Their belief system starts and ends with hell with our country, its values, our institutions and traditions..
As long as the direction of the mark on your forehead is in the right direction, they will be happy to cheerlead any destruction of our land..

No wonder, Hindus in TN are a punching bag for everyone.. Thanks Murali for making it obvious to a larger Indian community in this forum, about your inherent biases

murali said...

Thanks for your comments and for entertaining Nizhal.

I am sorry for stereotyping tamil saivites.There are many who are decent,non-sectarian and understand stand the spirit of broad based modern hindu/indian nationalism.The WAY to GO.No point in raking up the past to exhibit ones prejudices while trying to explain nuances of tamil outsiden to our brethren from other states.

M. Patil said...

"Either we hang in together and win or get hung separately"

Benjamin Franklin, during the American war of independence.

Franklin's saying is appropriate for the Hindu community. It is high time Hindus of India, especially the Tamilian Hindus realize that. Otherwise the fate of Hindu community is going to be like that of Kashmiri and Kerala Hindu community. It appears like the Tamil Hindu community is headed that way, getting picked one by one by the Dravidain Th*gs.

It is unfortunate that some still don't see the writing on the wall


Harish said...

Yeah murali, as you say there are many saivities in TN who are as you say "decent,non-sectarian and understand stand the spirit of broad based modern hindu/indian nationalism"

I am yet to find a vaishnavite in TN with the aforementioned qualities..

nizhal yoddha said...

i will not make any broad comments about tamil vaishnavites, because i have had good friends amongst them. but this fellow murali is either a troll or a creep. i have deleted several of his dumb/libelous comments here before.

and he totally endeared himself to me with his very first comment here wherein he decided what my caste was. what a jerk, i thought at the time.

i don't know if there is a vaishnava problem per se, but this individual has a problem. we have a few like this who crop up from time to time. there was another fellow who made a few inane comments, and then threatened to never post here again if i said rude things about him! he was confusing me with somebody who cared a damn about his opinion. i am reaching the same point with this murali blighter. we have enough problems with the semites, don't need fratricidal warfare.

Harish said...

I have to agree with the other Harish, in my experience so far i have never met a shaivite with the monomania of one god only, sure they may exist but i haven't met one, and i have never met anyone that rejoiced at vishnu kovils destruction but i can safely that i have met plenty of those crazy types among the vaishnavites (remember ikscon & their demigod status of shiva while praising jesus as an avatar ...), thats my experience as a Telugu person who knows many Tamils.

Harish said...

amen Rajeev..

I simply could not take it lying down when somebody cheer leads the orgy of destruction wrought by the rulers of TN and then come up with inane arguments supporting it...I dont care in what God/philosophy he/she believes in..

I-M said...

Very true, Harish(s)..
I remember an incident happened in TN (only in TN such things happen and go unnoticed). There is a very old Vishnu temple in a village near Tirunelvi, which had very famous Vaishnavite industrialist in it trust. This temple had a unique structure. Though the main deity here is Vishnu, his sanadhi is kind of obscured by Shiva's sanidhi... i.e. in order to see Vishnu u have to behind the Shiva's sanidhi.
To everyone's knowledge, right from the very old villagers and scriptures, it has remained so right from d ancient days—not addition thrusted by any Shiva-crazy ruler. But our 'Vaishnavite businessman' who has links with national-level politicians took so much offence with this matter and removed the Shiva's sanidhi to the outer prakara...wen the villagers came to know abt this it was too late, and nobody really wanted to buy the wrath of the V.Bsnssman, But some thoughtful hindu (saivaite or vaishnavite no idea) got a temporary stay on this shifting.. now I heard Shiva is wrapped under a sack.. dont knw how true the last sentence is.
Unless hindus r going to get united against all odds, particularly within our religions (saivaites, vaishnavites; southy, northy; upper caste, lower caste), there is no use in blaming others..

Sameer said...

I dont understand what is this Saivism and Vaishnavism divide?
Didn't Vishnu worship Shiva (Sri Rama at Rameshwaram) and didnt Shiva worship Vishnu (Hanuman the param bhakta of Sri Rama)?
What is the problem? Having one's ishta devata is one thing, but negativising other devatas of one's own religin... I see it strange... For example, my favourite devata is Ganesha, but it will never reduce the importance of Shiva or Rama or Krishna or Durga to me...

Harish said...

Well Sameer, you are spot on..There should be no problem..
but.. like a lot of other things, when you begin to look at religion as a cult then it ends up getting messed up...That IMHO is the bane of Xtianity, Islam and other semitic religions..

The problem with the Vaishnavism in TN has got to do more with the followers and their interpretation than with Vishnu or Krishna..

Our legends are replete with instances of Siva, Vishnu being representations of the omnipotent..and there is no MY GOD is better than U R GOD kind of thing in Hinduism..Try telling that to some of the Vaishnavites around..

Like somebody here pointed out...ISKCON is a classic example of a Vaishnavite cult..many of them are downright abusive towards other god's in the Hindu pantheon..The animosity is so jarring that you will be pardoned if you though they were NOT Hindus..

In Tamil nadu things get a little more complicated with Ramanuja, a great savant, but no greater than so many other religious philosophers that our country can be proud of.. The philosophical "divide" if you want to call it between Advaita and dvaita has spawned a lot of historical fallacies, twisting of facts etc etc in TN with Saint Ramanuja and the Vaishnavites in TN being at the heart of it..

Murali here who was cheerleading takeover (a.k.a destruction) of Chidambaram is a poster boy of the devious ways some of the vaishnavites are capable of thinking..

I hate it when Hindus find new reasons to fight over each other..We have a great,very liberal religion that is accepting and welcoming.. why bring in semitic thoughts into it and destroy it..

harish said...

The only way we can counter this is to organize all the sane and devoted followers of hinduism into one well knit organization.

The following have to be done.

Bring together leading spiritual men from different ideologies together and start an organization which can command respect.

The Organization should then carry out a major propaganda in support of religion and enrollment. In its propaganda the organization should not indulge in hate speaches but be more focussed on what it wants to do.

1. More than the actual temples, India's real wealth is its spiritual men and scholars and devoted and knowledgable priests. On one hand one must fight against political harassment, on the other hand priests and spritual men should be supported to carry on their tasks. For example if a dikshithar is displaced from a temple, they should be given a place elsewhere where they can worship without interference and continue to follow the age old customs. Thus priests and spiritual men and their practices should be preserved
2.Fight legally to get back the lost rights and preserve the existing rights
3. Let awareness grow among Indians about hinduism and use the platform of spiritual men to explain the whys of various concepts. Make people more reverent

If we can achive atleast the first goal we have done half the job.Alls well if we act together.
Anyone upto the job of floating a genuine non political org?