Thursday, March 02, 2006

indo-us 'accord' is a sham

mar 2nd

nuclear accord as signed is a total sellout of indian interests. well, near-total.

14 out of 22 reactors under intrusive IAEA inspections. let us note that the P5, *put together*, including arch-proliferator china, have only put a grand total of 11 out of 950 reactors under IAEA inspections!

one saving grace, the fast breeder reactor is not in the list of those under inspection.

another saving grace, the US congress will reject this, as it is not total 'cap, rollback' as the ayatollahs in congress wish.

also let us note that when IAEA inspectors come in, they declare the country a proliferator of WMDs. this is what happened to iraq, and it was pretty much a total lie. this will be the excuse for the yanks and the chinese to invade india. it is against this eventuality that india needs to keep a stable of nuclear weapons and missiles ready (not to mention musharraf's itchy fingers).

also, nobody talked about the elephant in the drawing room: pakistan. american support of pakistan is what is causing most of india's problems. the rest are home-grown, with various jaichand/mir jafars selling the country for peanuts to foreigners.


san said...

Rajeev, I'm going to have to do a reassessment and admit that I'm impressed at what India managed to get for itself through this deal.

India has kept 8 reactors outside of the intrusive IAEA inspections regime, including a Fast Breeder Reactor, which can be used to develop the Fast Breeder Reactor technology. Furthermore, India has the right to build more reactors, including Fast Breeders, outside of the IAEA inspections regime.

Great - that's all we need in order to maintain and build our nuclear weapons technology and arsenal.

It doesn't hurt us at all to be putting the energy-producing non-weapons-related part of our nuclear program under IAEA inspections, because it has no military security purpose.

In exchange for our concessions, we Indians get nuclear tech cooperation and major access to dual-use technology, as well as a guarantee on fresh supply of uranium, which India has precious little of, and is in danger of running out of.

Now why did India get such a sweetheart deal? Because the US is secretly planning to destroy the NPT -- by this I mean that within the next 2 years, the USA will be forced to bomb Iran, in order to destroy its nuclear program to prevent it from getting The Bomb.

Not only will the US bombing of Iran be severe and repeated, causing international outcry, but in the process it will result in the destruction of the NPT itself.

The reason the NPT would go up in flames along with the Iranian N-program, is that the US would be grossly violating its commitment under NPT to not harm the signatory members as they engage in "peaceful nuclear research."

The problem is that the NPT's allowance for "peaceful nuclear research" coupled with its allowance for quick 90-day withdrawal from the treaty, means that the NPT basically permits countries like Iran to clandestinely nuclearize right under the noses of all. So NPT is a flawed treaty not just from the standpoint of countries which seek to end nuclear apartheid -- it's also a flawed and rushed-through treaty from the standpoint of those who would like to preserve nuclear apartheid.

As the old 5-member NPT apartheid regime approaches collapse, up-and-coming India is being invited in by the senior-most members of the apartheid club to form a new replacement apartheid regime to help keep the entrenched elite interests from falling off their perches.

The US is creating the 6-member GNEP (Global Nuclear Energy Producers) cartel to replace the NPT. We're being bought off.

Fine, I'm okay with that -- I don't mind apartheid, just as long as I'm on the topside of it and not the bottomside. I'm not in favor of going it alone just for the sake of going it alone, and being a Contrary James.

Besides, some way has to be maintained to keep order in the face of chaos. I don't want to see those rabid Ayatollahs getting nukes when we're within their missile range, nor do I want to see the N.Korean commie-dynastry freaks going nuclear to start their own WW3.

We forward-looking democracies have to band together to pursue our values of progress and achievement, which the backward Leftists and Islamofascists are jealously and crudely trying to protect themselves against by groping for nuclear weapons.

What do you all think? Comments?

Apollo said...

Rajeev i have been ur ardent admirer. but on this one i completely and totally disgree with u and agree on some points with the san's comments above.

This is a very good deal and it is both india's and US interests. america wants a strong india to balance china and here we have a convergence of interests.

i think america has taken a long term view and they see that both US and india's interests are very similar and hence we got this deal.

IAEA is going to give india specific safeguards and they won't interefere with india's military program. they will only ensure that civilian fissile material is not diverted for military purposes.

we don't need to do that since our military reactors are producing them.

we don't need a nuclear armed iran in our neighbourhood. those fellas can turn against anyone anytime. iran has invaded india very recently in 1739 if ppl have forgotten and under ancient achaeminids and sassanians they were constantly harassing indian states right upto the indus river.

indianpatriot said...

Rajeev is right in that it is a sham deal. Yanks have extracted an assurance that Indians would not develop Surya which could reach all areas from Boston to SanDiego and Seattle to Miami. Just like growth of outsourcing gave Yanks respect for India as an economic power(Also economic fear), growth of Indian military power (With atleast 15 surya missiles and full fledged thermonuclear arsenal and strong deterrent in sea in Indian occean region) could have given more leverage to abolish caste system in NPT and throw out Britain from another caste club (UN security council). Cousin of the caste club (Australia) said it would not sell Uranium to India while it happily sells Uranium to banker of cousins big brother(USA).

DarkStorm said...

Ok, so finally the deal has just been signed.. but not implemented. It has to go through the US congress.

Is it a good deal. Why is Kakodkar now saying that its a good deal, when earlier he was opposing it. Is there a change(for the better) in the deal in its original form, and now in its current form.

Anyway, I think 8 nuclear reactors, incl the fast breeder reactors are enough to churn out enough plutonium for our nuclear programme.

I assume that we will not be allowed to use uranium sourced from US or France for the civilian reactors to fuel the military ones. But good enough. Earlier, we were using our limited uranium for both civilian and strategic purposes, now we can freely source uranium for civilian purposes, while the limited uranium we have can be used exclusively for strategic purpose.

I hope we are not getting into this blindly, but I am not sure, given Madmoron Singh and the Congress's unfailing tendency to land the country in trouble, year after year.

By the way, a whimper of a budget from Chidambaram. What ?!! tax on using ATMs, and more tax on using credit cards and debit cards.. What a stupid looooser.
And he has come back to deciding prices of little items like umbrellas and packaged foods and icecreams, like in those oppressive Indira and Rajiv Gandhi days..
What does he think this country is.. Niger or Chad ??

Non Carborundum said...

Some questions:
1. Can we add more reactors down the line to the civilian and military lists?
2. Can we have FBRs in the civilian list?

cyniclearner said...


Your premise of deal being bad for india is based on the Non-Proliferation Mafia's conduct who slept merrily while China, Pakistan, North Korea, AQ Khan etc were running the biggest proliferation racket on the globe.

Please note that most 'significant' worthies of this mafia belongs to Democrates.
Republicans, on the other hand have been much more practical in breaking new grounds according to changing times. e.g. Nixon, Kissinger duo recruited China in the quest to contain USSR, recruiting Pakis to defeat USSR in Afghanistan etc.

History is being repeated ...US government realises that NPT has been wrecked by China with help of Pakitan and North Korea...

My take is that while US government will continue to pay lip service to NPT and like, it won't let NPT come in way of this deal. India is way too important in their quest to contain North Korea,China,Pakitan,Iran nexus.

You got to admit it....they know who their biggest enemies is/ are.

It is not Osama or Musharraf or some Iraqi mullah. It is China which is singlemindedly going ahead with its plan to 'integrate' Taiwan...and become a security nightmare for South Korea and Japan.

KapiDhwaja said...

It is too early to comment on the Nuke Deal, coz the details are not out yet. But from the looks of it, it does look that most of India's concerns and interests have been taken care of. This is largely due to the outspoken efforts of our scientific community, without whose opposition, UPA would have put all the reactors under IAEA.
Here is a bit from a western analyst..

In diplomatic terms, the main loser from the historic Indo-American deal is China, which now sees India as its main rival for the future dominance of Asia forging a serious strategic partnership with the United States, China's main rival for the future dominance of the western Pacific.

India has paid remarkably little for this deal, winning almost every point in the small print of the agreement and reversing the efforts by the U.S. State Department's arms control specialists to minimize India's military nuclear capabilities and to maximize the controls of the International Atomic Energy Authority over India's civilian nuclear program.

If we can get the cake and eat it too, nothing like it. In other words, if we can build as many bombs as we can to take care of Chinese and Islamic threat, while also getting access to Uranium & Nuke Tech. China is already worried, seeing from the comments emanating from their state-controlled media. If China is worried, then this is definitely a good deal.

KapiDhwaja said...

The Non-Proliferation fundamentalists are whining abt the Nuke deal, which is a good sign from India's perspective that the deal is good. Here is a gem from a Non-Proliferation Hawk in the US establishment..

Robert J. Einhorn, a former State Department expert on proliferation issues in the Clinton and Bush administrations, said India had accomplished all its goals: retaining the rights to import uranium and produce plutonium while earning recognition as a nuclear power.

"The Indians should be very proud of their negotiators. They achieved all of their objectives," said Einhorn, now a senior advisor at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "It's not clear what the administration's objectives were, but it's unlikely that they achieved them."

Einhorn said the U.S. had initially offered to let India produce weapons materials at its two planned fast-breeder reactors — enough to produce as many as six bombs a year. But India, underscoring its interest in a more robust weapons program, rejected the deal, he said.

"That was apparently not enough for India," Einhorn said.

KapiDhwaja said...

The Anti-China hawk in Japan, Shinzo Abe, who is widely seen to become the Japanese PM sometime in the future, gives his positive approval to the Indo-US Nuke deal. This guy Shinzo Abe regularly visits the Yasukuni shrine, just to irritate the Chinese.

Vasudev said...

I will not for a moment pretend to be as educated on the subject as those who have already posted. But being an American and watching this government's actions closely, I would warn India not to get too friendly with the United States. There is nothing alturistic about our overtures. Our government will only ally with India so long as it is in America's best interest. Remember, only twenty years ago, it was in America's best interest to ally with Iraq.

Sage said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
iamfordemocracy said...

Not many seem to have discussed the energy issue in relation to India-US agreement. If India's dependence on Crude reduces substantially, would it not blunt the secular thrust? What do the bloggers think here?

mahashivaji said...

I'm not sure about the agreement, but if you ask the question "cui bono?" then I think that it's not such a bad deal for India.

Remember, the US is a superpower and they intend to stay as one at least for the next 200 years. How can they do this?

1. By making India much more powerful than they are. In essence, the US has taken the cuffs off and India can now build as many bombs as they want.

The US WANTS India to have more nukes. This is the truth. They need to choke off China.

The reason China is keeping quiet is because they are against it. They're too smart to say anything---unlike our indian politicians who are utter idiots.

This deal is a huge blow for chinese imperial ambitions. huge huge blow.

The US will feed India as much fuel as they desire.

Initially I was against this deal, but now I'm actually in favor of it. This deal gives India more nukes, more power, and less dependence on the central axis of evil---saudi arabia.

pakistan has been dusted. President Bush has completely snubbed pakistan. the de-hyphenating process is complete. The fact that he stated to mushy that he sees "India in a completely different class than pakistan" sayd it all.

I am just praying that mushy gets hanged soon and then the fundas take over. then the US will have no choice but to bomb the daylights out of pakistan.

Too bad for the Indian Marxist press---they will have lost their key ally!

Prithvi said...

I believe you are absolutely wrong. First, its time India started asserting her weight or we will forever be in the shadows of the world, always the poor man out the cold. During the Cold war we did the same mistake and did the stupid "non-aligned" crap. What did it get us ? Nothing! Remember, nice guys finish last.
We didnt get Russian protection nor did we get American capitalism. We were the pariahs that were distrusted by either side. China got nukes handed to them by America and before that the Russians gave them support. Plus, do not forget many countries developed handsomley through some agreement or the other.

Besides, we need the nuclear power, we need the technology, we need to be counted. I dont know where you live but in India, except New Delhi and Mumbai most cities still dont have regular power supply. Nuclear plants would do the trick without the pollution of thermal plants, just like France or Japan. Heck we should invite the Japanese to built a few dozen plants too.

If we are in America's good books (and Israel's) we can completely remove Russia from our lives and let them peddle their cheap merchandize to some other poor third world country in need of second rate weapons.
The threat that China will/can dictate terms by threatening war is a very real possiblity and India needs to be totally assured that if push comes to shove, we should be able to insure "mutually assured distruction" of China, so that it is costly to make threats.
Right now, we arent in that position.
Why should we not accept a helping hand even if it means it will cost us a bit later ? We can oblige the Americas with a bit of run-around and prosper at the same time. Build bridges and cement ties with powerfull nations for our convenience.

If you've ever visited the border with China you will observe that the Chinese cannot march right in through the himalayas. They will mostly bombard us with missiles and air-strikes if were to ever go to war. For this eventuality we need to have enough "bang" to kick the chinese in the balls if they decide to wack us over the head.

Another fact, ask any Arab, they prefer Indians to Chinese any day of the week because our cultures are similar and we understand them better due to centuries of contact. The Chinese culture is alien to them and so are their policies. Except pakistan, no Muslim nation will attack India as things stand today.
Pakistan is burning and quite frankly nobody in South Block is worried about a war with Pakistan soon or afraid of that option either. We will win for no doubt but before how many indians die ?

overall, your fear of Indian subjugation to the US is unwarranted. There will always be people who oppose any Indian government pandering to any nation, thanks to our free press public opinion will judge what is the right path for our nation.