Sunday, March 26, 2006

bulletin of atomic scientists: Afghanistan

mar 26th

thanks to rajan for the pointer to arunsmusings.

clearly the us is being bamboozled. the taliban = the pakistani army. you can't wipe one out without wiping out the other. the us knows this, but they are pretending they don't because they are calculating that there's short-term value in it. it will bite them on the ass one of these days.

but the quote that leapt out at me is one that implies that the afghans' spirt -- just like that of the baluchis -- has been broken.

"A word about fear. Afghans, legendary for their tenacity in battle, have had their courage shattered by the gruesome bloodletting of recent decades. The odds were stacked so heavily against them, the weapons so mismatched, the perpetrators--Afghan and foreign alike--so insensitive to the strictures of honorable conflict, that courage became irrelevant. Afghans are now internally injured. They constitute an entire society suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. And so, it does not take much to intimidate them."

this is precisely what happened to the hindus of the subcontinent over protracted centuries of mohammedan invasions. the perpetrators (ironically enough mostly afghans) were so barbaric that hindus became traumatized: the gentleman's rules of war that hindus had always lived by were no match for jihadi fervor for virgins, and al-taqiyah. hindus were traumatized even though they never gave up, and kept fighting back again and again, never allowing the mohammedan to become comfortable (unlike the persians and egyptians who were wiped out). but the long-term impact -- as naipaul observed -- was that hindu civilization was damaged. as someone has termed it, a collective stockholm syndrome. this was lesser in the south than in the north, mostly thanks to vijayanagar.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rajan


http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2006/03/sarah-chayes-on-afghanistan.html


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18 comments:

Muse (# 5279076) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Muse (# 5279076) said...

Rajeev,

I agree completely with whatever you said in this except for the last sentence, which follows:

"this was lesser in the south than in the north, mostly thanks to vijayanagar."

Thanks to E V Ramaswamy Naicker and co who epitomize the pinnacle of the "Collective Stockholm Syndrome" south indian tend to find fault with anything good about India.

This is due to the following logic:

India = Hindustan = Hindutva = Brahminism = Castism

The logical conslusions (derived from the above parent premise) of the so-called rationalist-secularist gang are:

1. anybody who logically disprove this premises is a fanatic hindutvavadin.

2. anybody who approve this premises is a liberated intelligentia.

3. anybody who approve this premises, but born in a brahmin caste is someone who would turn hostile anytime. So just use them, but be vary of them for these are dangerous species.

nizhal yoddha said...

muse,
kindly don't equate south indian = tamil. tamils themselves encourage this equation, but the majority of south indians are very different from tamils and have no time for tamil uniqueness and triumphalism (tamiliyat like kashmiriyat and punjabiyat).

as i have said here before, tamil = south indian, is equivalent to saying bihari = north indian.

it's only a subset of tamils who pay any attention to that absurd little man, ev ramaswamy naicker.

nobody in andhra, karnataka or kerala has the slightest respect for him, for he was a charlatan. evr was a bully and a coward. he figured tamil brahmins were vulnerable, so he attacked them. for all his 'rationalism' he was scared of mohammedans and christists, so he never once attacked their irrational faiths.

as i have said here before, his chamchas make him out to be larger than life (i have recounted the story of 'the hero of vaikom' when in reality he was 'the tourist to vaikom').

of course, evr and the entire 'dravidian' bullshit movement was helped generously by the christists, as they invented the idea.

daisies said...

i beg to differ on the cause of
the 'south-indian = tamil'
thinking.

pardon my ignorance if that's what
it amounts to.

i think it all started with idli
and dosa. everyone north of the
vindhyas associates idli and dosa
with Madras. every town and
city up north probably has a
canteen called 'madras canteen'
that serves mouth-watering idlis
and dosas, which north indians
generally prefer to home-made
idli/dosa. my town had one such
canteen.

so for a long time north-indians
must have thought of south india
as a huge state whose capital was
madras.

and all south-indians were
therefore called madrasis (i never
taught this to anyone).

and south indians were considered
dravidians for some reason.

and since the language of people
from madras was tamil, it all
ended up in:

south indian = tamil


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DarkStorm said...

Daisies, most of what you say is the result of the false Aryan Invasion Fantasy of Dear Romila Thappar mata. She is responsible for the mess in Tamilnadu because of her strange ideas.

chandramahal said...

It is true that anyone south of the Vindhyas was considered a 'madrassi' as Daisy avers.
Initially EVR & co tried to rope in Andhras and other South Indians into their 'Dravidian" classification (separated by languages but united by race !) but gave up due to lack of support. Only the Tamils embraced the Dravidian ideology

daisies said...

I may as well assert while on this
post, the correct pronunciation
of dosa. North Indians, lend me
your ears...

it is "doshai" (soft sh, like in
shanti). it is NOT "dosa".

Also the correct pronunciation
of "sambar" is "saambaar" (the
last part is exactly like "bar" in
english.

It is NOT sam-bhar.

So next you hear that ad which
says "Yeh hai asli sambhar", please
remember, yeh hai asli pronunciation! :-)

doshai
saambaar

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nizhal yoddha said...

i usually ignore daisies' eminently forgettable homilies, but i couldn't resist her providing a very good example of a tamil who presume to speak for all south indians.

sorry, dosa is to be pronounced dosa. it is 'dosai' only in tamil. tamil has a strange fondness for affixing 'i' to various commonplace words, for instance 'mala' becomes 'malai', 'pilla become pillai', etc.

similarly tamils have a fascination for 'h', adding the letter widely and unnecessarily after consonants. eg 'indhu', 'govindhan', 'varikha'. and trying to impose these spellings on others, esp. kerala people.

cyniclearner said...

honorable conflic and Afghans !

Was not Md Ghauri an Afghan ?
How about Ahmad Shah Abdalli ?
And Mahmoud Gazhnavi ?

What goes, definitely comes back. Or call it national Law of Karma.
One thing that has not changed is that since medieval times, Afghans have looted with impunity, massacred with jehadi zeal, so much so that they have an entire mountain range honouring cord blooded genocide of Hindus.

Honorable conflict....my foot. It shows how poor Western understanding is about Afghans.

KapiDhwaja said...

Good one cyniclearner. Terroristan(Pakis) will pay for their evil karma too. They even pulled out foetuses from pregnant Hindu and Sikh women during partition. Yeah, they have a lot in common with their Chinese friends. One of them pulls out foetuses, while the other eats them.

Eagerly waiting for the day when Terroristan is vaporized into thin air, a la Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

someone said...

I don't see why Afghans should be considered victims. The women, sure, they're victims in most muslim societies, but not the men and Afghans in general. They've been acting like warlords and pillaging neighbouring areas, especially India, for centuries. Peace has existed in Afghanistan for a very short while, and it was imposed upon them by their Shah. But their warmongering traits never went away, so they promptly got rid of him and went back to violence. It's westerners who talk like Taliban were some fringe organisation created by outsiders. Taliban was the true face of the Afghan people. No "secular" government represents the opinion and choices of Afghans like the Taliban did. Violent fundamentalism is too deeply entrenched in Afghanistan. Call me racist, but look at the recent trial of the Christian convert and how Afghans reacted to it.

Afghans, legendary for their tenacity in battle,

Come on Rajeev, it's western "Indologists", who deny the crimes committed during the Muslim invasions, that write admiringly about the "legendary tenacity" of Afghans. They were brutal tribals, warmogerers, nothing more. It's a general trend among westerners to admire brutal conquerors and invaders. We appreciate how Ashoka turned good after conquering India, they admire how Alexander pillaged persia.

PS: It's disturbing to see people talking like outsiders about the south, as if they don't know southerners. I think you should take more time to learn about different parts of India, especially the south. Don't talk about the area like Tamil Nadu is the only state. That's how westerners treat Asia and China, so you should know. Get a freaking map and look up the states and their statistics. Oh, and BTW, I'm a Brahmin in Karnataka and I love it down here.

daisies said...

Re:
"i usually ignore daisies' eminently forgettable homilies, but i couldn't resist her providing a very good example of a tamil who presume to speak for all south indians.

sorry, dosa is to be pronounced dosa. it is 'dosai' only in tamil. tamil has a strange fondness for affixing 'i' to various commonplace words, for instance 'mala' becomes 'malai', 'pilla become pillai', etc."


--Well Nizhal Yoddha, if your blog is meant only for you, you have every right to assert that you are
always right.

I thought this was an exchange forum.

First, where did the word dosa
originate ?

Anyway, being knowledgable in
sanskrit, i know what words come
from tamil and what words from sanskrit, and what words should
end how.

In fact, I know more Sanskrit than
Tamil.

Since Sanskrit has soft and harsh
consonants, a lot of people use
different types of endings to
emphasise the consonant. Many dont
stick to the Nehruvian system of
representing Sanskrit in English.

Obviously you also refer to another
post here last month on language.
You have a problem with the uniqueness of original Tamil. I have no problem, although I dont
consider Tamil Nadu as my native
place. I am merely an impartial
observer of the languages, and
humble enough to acknowledge
something great when I see it.
I know for a fact that Tamil
grammar is completely different
than others, and the presence
of "zha" makes it different. I
have heard enough ancient Tamil to
appreciate its beauty (This is
with reference to another post).

That does not mean I support the
uniqueness of Tamil people. It's
just the language I meant.

I wont go into more details here,
since obviously everything you say
is gospel truth.

p.s. I will look up the word
homily and figure out what the
insult was.

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chandramahal said...

Reverting to EVR. Though the Dravidian Parties revere him as "Thanthai Periyar"
(Grand Old Father?) and euologise him as the very embodiment of Tamil Culture--EVR himself had a very poor opinion of Tamil and its culture!
He called Tamil a 'barbaric' language and was of the opinion that Tamil Culture could 'improve' only when it gives up notions of chastity and similar 'out moded' ideas!
That he was NOT a tamilian is a fact.

daisies said...

Could the above be one reason why
the word "madrassi" as was used in
the north, was actually a
derogatory term ? (it was never
used in a flattering or
complimentary way).

Or is it the reverse ?

Darkstorm, thanks for pointing
out the Romila Thapar connection.
I missed that connection in my
musings on s.india etc.

it's a long time since i lived in
the north or travelled there. i
hope things have changed for the
better - i mean the attitudes.

darkstorm, do give my disregards
to thapar mata next time you meet
her.

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DarkStorm said...

Well, Daisies, my experience with Tamils has been kind of mixed. They are wonderful people, if you meet them outside Tamilnadu. I had a few good Tamil friends in college and in school.

But many of my friends who have been to Chennai, either on assignment or working there, say if you travel to Tamilnadu, the hate for "so-called Aryan" northern Indians shows (Thanks to Thappar mata). I have never been to Tamilnadu, I confess, except once in my early childhood when my family visited Bangalore and Ooty.

And well, I still call it dosa, by force of habit.

I hate to see what Bangalore has become. Come on Deve Gowda, look what you have done.

daisies said...

Nizhal Yoddha,

You should actually be happy that
thus far, a lot of people have
thought s.india = madras/tamil

Because, in any case, they have
not at all thought too highly of
"madras" and "madrassis", thanks
to Romila Thapar and EVR.

So when everyone wakes up and
realises South India has other
states too, the only people who
will continue to be remembered
derogatorily will be the Tamils.

So you can rejoice. All other
states will be well thought of.

What's more, people might even
consider you highly cultured,
whether you deserve it or not.

I hope this is the silver lining
in your cloud (I mean your cloud
of "south indian = tamil").

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nizhal yoddha said...

daisies, i'm afraid you are confusing me with someone who gives a damn.

gad, i've always wanted to say that!

daisies said...

then I must say you are excellent
leader (neta) material for India.

it is people who dont give a damn
what anyone thinks who are up there
ruling the country.

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