Monday, June 09, 2008

Untouchability in Indian Christism; and anti-feminism too

jun 9th, 2008

there are only 2% christists in india, proclaims all the christist propaganda literature and most of them are poor harijans, they say. however, they and their institutions own 20% of the land, second only to the indian government, and way ahead of the railways etc. how come? does that make sense that these poor, "oppressed" christists have a per capita income that is greater than that of the "oppressor" hindus? what doesn't compute? well, the fact is that the christists are simply lying as usual, and they have swiped a lot of real estate in the process.

a lot of this land is either in prime urban areas, where it has been extorted from the maharajahs through force applied by the british, or given away by the british or nehruvian governments. most of this is given away gratis, taxfree. the wealth tax on this alone would fix the national deficit if only the government were to pursue it as it does when it comes to hindu institutions. but no, the christists shout about "minority rights".

or this land is in forest areas, where the christists simply took it from the tribals, after having been careful to ply them with drink (and usually raping their daughters as well). the plight of the tribals is pitiful. just as christists have done to tribals everywhere (eg. aborigines in australia and native americans in north and south america) the christists supply diseases like gonorrhea and syphilis as well as alcohol and decimate the tribals.

the christists also shout from the rooftops about egalitarianism. the lie is being given to this by a lot of christists who call themselves dalit christists. the masses of these people are allowed to sweep the floors and chop the wood and draw the water, while the middle-caste (mostly OBC) converts who grabbed the levers of power oppress them horribly.

christism is a disaster all over the world. in india, it is not only a lie in terms of its mythology and hoaxes, but also in terms of oppressing large numbers of people.

see the real, ugly face of oppressive christism in india. think of this the next time they ask you to donate money to their 'saint' francis xavier memorial school (francis xavier brought the inquisition to india -- he wrote to the chief godman specifically requesting it).

and the 'dravidians' are stealth christists who have invented yet another way of exploiting the truly downtrodden. they shout about 'social justice', but the definition of that is "upliftment of the OBC like naickers, mudaliars, vanniars, thevars, nadars, etc. at the cost of SC/ST".

---------- Forwarded message ----------

by Laura Kelly
Mr.M.Karunanidhi,the dravidian Chief Minister of Tamilnadu, is deadly
silent on the strange news of 12 lakhs Vanniar christians'threat to
convert to Hinduism. (The Hindu 29/3/2008).This could perhaps be the
greatest blow to the equal rights campaign.(12 lakhs 1.2 million.) This comes
as big blow to evengelisation in South India.

The elected chief Minister for Tamilnadu who calls himself as the friend
of Minorities M.Karunanidhi has passed orders to open the doors for all
Hindu castes to become archakas in Hindu temples. The Pope greeted
Karunanidhi,after his 2006 election victory.

I have been reading with great interest news being published in news
papers, from readers on news "Ensuring equal rights to all Dalits in Hindu
Temple rituals" (example Chidambaram). The Chief minister of TN has passed
a GOVT ORDER to that effect.

Will he now extend similar rights to SC Christians and pass a GO to ensure
SC/ST Christians get equal rights in the RC Churches of Tamilnadu?

Tamil literature boasts of great Dravidian Saints like Nammalvar,
Thiruvalluvar, Thirumoolar, Thirumangai azhwar, Thiruppan azhwar, Kambar,
Nandanar, etc who contributed for the spiritual upliftment of all classes
of people. Western writers, whose twin mission was to subjugate other
cultures and to mutilate the Nature, had called this world-view of Hindus
as 'animism' (P.Y. Luke and John B. Carman, Village Christians and Hindu
Culture (London: Lutterworth Press, 1968)

Does Indian Christianity allow Untouchability?

The Synod of Diamper held 1599 at Diamper (Udiamperur, Kerala) followed by
the Synod of Goa, India; pressure was brought on Syrian Christians
temporarily to accept Roman Church as Malabar Uniate Church, clearly
recognized and endorsed the Indian caste system within the Roman Catholic
Church. This is held intact even today with the Doctrines of the Roman
Church, even though the constitution of India has abolished Untouchability
within Hinduism. It is surprising both the authors of the article have
skirted the key issue. Roberto De Nobili, Francis Xavier and John Britto
all practiced untouchability. Jesuits like Nobili claimed himself to be a
Brahmin from Rome used to administer the Eucharist on a long stick or pole
to the new "untouchable converts". (sic)

In a reply to a question "Are not Christians entitled to combat
Untouchability in Hindu Society "? Mahatma Gandhi said, "Not only are the
Christians entitled, but it is their duty to combat Untouchability in
their own midst. But if the question is that Christians should combat
Untouchability in Hinduism my answer is that they simply cannot do it
because Untouchability of Hinduism should not be Untouchability of
Christians. The anti-Untouchability movement means weaning Hindus from
their error. Non-Hindus cannot effectively do this, even as Hindus cannot
bring about religious reform among Christians and Mussalmans. If the
question means that Christian should combat Untouchability among Hindus by
converting untouchables to Christianity they do not advance the cause in
any shape or form; the cause being reform among caste Hindus. If the
latter repented their sin the Harijans would be delivered from the yoke of
Untouchability in a moment. Conversion can never do it. It can only add to
the prevailing bitterness and introduce a disturbing factor in a situation
which is already bad".

Most Pakistani Christians today still do the same menial work as their
untouchable ancestors: sweeping the streets and doing other menial jobs
deemed ritually or literally unclean by Upper-caste Hindus. (The
Untouchables' Church despite a Catholic bishop's protest suicide in 1998,
Christians holds little hope for repeal of blasphemy law, Ethan Casey in
Pakistan. Christianity Today Magazine.)

The Term Dalit Christian is a misnomer.

Mr.V. T. Rajashekhar, editor "Dalit Voice" had very aptly described the
unchristian side of the Indian Church. In his article of above name
published in "Dalit Voice" some years ago, he had commented that the
missionaries are educating the children of oppressors, who tomorrow will
come to power and see that these very schools, where they obtained first
lessons of alphabets, be closed. It is like feeding milk to the serpents'
offspring. He had also suggested that at least 50% of seats in all
Christian convents must be given only to SCs and STs at no charge, and the
deficit be made good by charging double fees from the children of
oppressors. I do not think that article made any dent on missionaries;
they are following their own ways says Dr. K. Jamanadas in his Dalit

The Privy Council (UK) as early as 1936 had ruled out that there is no
"Scheduled caste in Indian Christianity"…(Reservations for Dalit
Christians a Gigantic Theo-Political Fraud by Prof .K.A Paliwal, Hindu
Writers Forum, New Delhi.)

The conversion agenda by Missionaries To 'Cast the Nets to the
Marginalized Side' and the argument again and again in new terminology
"Dalits" is untenable both legally and morally. Dalit Openness 'to Gods
unknown' comes with a price tag - loss of 'self' and Identity'

Open letter to Rome

On May 9, 2001, the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) sent its first
open letter to the Rev. Fr. Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, the superior general of
the Jesuit order in Rome, about the expulsion from the order of Fr.
Pallath J. Joseph of the Kerala Province of Jesuits in India. This article
continues the series of open letters that have ensued to the superior
general about Fr. Pallath's case. Because each letter begins with the same
introduction stating the facts of the case, these have been omitted after
the fifth letter below. For further details about the expulsion of Fr.
Pallath from the Jesuit order, see the web site created by AHRC at

P.N.Benjamin wrote for the Deccan Herald on the eve of the Synod said,
"The Church has sinned more than others in perpetuating social injustices
against Dalit Christians. In Indian Christian communities, caste
discrimination takes many forms. There are some churches built for
separate groups. These places of worship even today retain their caste
identity. Another example of casteist practice is allotting separate
places in churches. Usually, the Christians of Scheduled Caste origins
occupy the rear of the church. A glaring instance of caste distinction is
found among the dead. The dead of the Dalit communities are buried in
separate cemeteries."

There is rampant casteist mentality in Christianity that takes pride in
the egalitarian nature of its society. Its missionaries sell dignity to
the under classes in the Hindu society but forget about it after their
conversion to Christianity. The Hindu society at least throws up
periodically reformers who champion the cause of Dalits who are useful to
Christianity only to swell its flock. Only two years ago, the Catholic
bishops meeting at Varanasi resolved to bury casteism among Christians.

The appointment of India's first "Dalit'' (low caste) archbishop evoked
mixed reactions among church community in Andhra Pradesh. The Vatican came
under attack for ignoring "ground realities'' in transferring Bishop
Marampudi Joji of Vijayawada to Hyderabad, while others said his promotion
as the state's metropolitan archbishop will bring "new life'' to the
million-strong Andhra church. Expressing shock over the appointment,
outgoing Archbishop Samineni Arulappa of Hyderabad said, "Rome is being
taken for a ride. Rome does not know the ground realities.''

Out of 156 Catholic bishops in India, 150 bishops belong to the upper
castes. Only six bishops are Dalits. Out of 12,500 Catholic priests, only
600 are from Dalit community. Though Dalits constitute 75 per cent of the
Indian Christian community, the control over church is in the hands of 25
per cent upper caste Christians. ) Outlook Magazine Aug 30 2005.

It is not as though the problems of Dalit Christians have not received
attention from the government. Several commissions appointed by the
government have referred to the disabilities Dalits suffered in Christian
society. Kaka Kalelkar, chairman of the Backward Classes Commission of
1955, said, "We discovered with deep pain and sorrow that Untouchability
did obtain in the extreme south among Indian Christians, and Indian
Christians were prepared in many places to assert that they were still
guided by caste, not only in the matter of Untouchability, but in social
hierarchy of high and low. While the Harijans among the Hindus, classified
as scheduled castes stand a fair chance of bettering their condition under
the Indian government's reservation policy, their Christian counterparts
stand twice discriminated."

On the eve of Pope John Paul's visit to India in November of 1999, Dr Mary
John, president of Dalit Christian Liberation Movement, wrote: "Since the
powers, authority, official posts, organizations and financial resources
are all in the absolute hold of the caste-priests, nuns, bishops and the
religious, the Dalit Christians are not able to get an equal share for
them in education, employment opportunities, welfare and development
schemes available in the church. This has hindered the progress of Dalit
Christians for long and has forced them to the situation of fighting for
their rights. But the church authorities are least worried about this."

About ten million Dalit Christians of India feel cheated by the church
that converted them to Christianity with the assurance that they would be
given equal rights and status in the community. But now Dalit Christians
are more untouchable in Christianity than they were in their original
faith, according to Francis. "Swadeshi Church could be a solution to this
problem as the management of our organizations will come into our hands.
Today we have to look to World Council of Churches (WCC) and Vatican for
every little effort to better our community. This is a fact that the
church organizations are not "Dalit Christians' friend", said Francis in
New Delhi recently.

PN Benjamin quotes some interesting statistics: A study of all the landed
properties of churches in India put together shows that the church is the
second biggest landlord in the country, next only to the Government. In
addition, the Church institutions and Church or Christians-led NGOs
receive foreign financial support amounting to over Rs. 2500 crores per
year. There is no transparency with regard to these funds as well as the
massive income accruing from the elite schools, colleges and hospitals and
also shopping complexes built all over the major cities in the country.
The poor Dalit Christian does not even get the crumbs, leave alone
participation in Church matters. There seems to be a vested interest in
keeping the Dalit Christians where they are to maintain the status quo in
the church.

The elected chief Minister for Tamilnadu who calls himself as the friend
of Minorities M.Karunanidhi has passed orders to open the doors for all
Hindu castes to become archakas in Hindu temples. However such law is
already in force in AP. The Tirupati Venkateswara University providing the
requisite training in Veda agamas. However the deeper questions are; most
of the Vedas have disappeared also too the agamas. Thanks to the secular
indifference. How can the Govt get enough Scholars to train these
trainees? Whether a secular Govt can interfere in the affairs of the
Hindu Temples? Will Muslims allow Karunanidhi to pass law that will permit
Muslim women to conduct Namaz? Will he be allowed by the world wide Muslim
body to change the Shariat laws? Will he be allowed to tamper with the
Churches and Female Bishops and priests be allowed to conduct Masses? Why
these gender discriminations prevail in Islam and Christianity?

Will the Dravidian Government that has come to Power in Tamilnadu under
the REFORMIST LEADERSHIP of Karunanidhi set out to remove this thorn also
from Late "EV Ramaswami Naicker's heart"? (A phrase used by M.Karunanidhi
after his election victory)

Therefore will MR. M.KARUNANIDHI allow Dalit Christians to occupy higher
posts in Churches by a Government mandate as he did for the Hindus?

Will he also allow women to become priests in churches? Will he also allow
women Imams in Mosques, by a mandate? This is not only to be fair and just
under law but also provide to gender equity, and parity of law? Where is
Mr. Karunanidhi's GO if it does not recognise the existence of
discrimination within the TAMIL CHRISTIAN CHURCH? ( Dr. Ida Raming is
perhaps best known in the United States as one of the seven women
illicitly ordained to priesthood on June 29, 2002, and then soon after
excommunicated by the Catholic church for refusing to recant that
ordination. In Europe, Raming has long been recognized as a pioneer of the
women's ordination movement.In her work, Raming has exposed documents - a
shocking tradition of misogyny--a misogyny that she has rightly insisted
underlies the arguments used in canon law to justify gender discrimination
in the church.)

* According to the medieval canonists, women are inferior from the very
moment of creation. The most complete explanation for this occurs in the
work of the 12th-century scholar, Huguccio, which became the model for
later writers on this point.

"A male and not a female is said to be the glory of God for three reasons.
First, because God appeared more powerful and more glorious in the
creation of males than of females, for the glory of God was manifested
principally through man since God made him per se and from the slime of
the earth against nature, but the female was made from the man. Second
because man was made by God with nothing mediating, which is not the case
for the female. Third, because a man principally glorifies God, that is
with nothing mediating, but a female glorifies God through the mediation
of a male since a male teaches and instructs the female for the
glorification of God."

Thomas Aquinas would later put it more simply, "A male is the beginning
and end of woman, as God is the beginning and end of every creature."

* The very word for women in Latin, mulier, was said to come from mollicie
mentis (softness of mind) while the word for male, vir comes from animi
virtute (strength or virtue of soul). Women then are unable to be a
reliable witness, or judge or administrator since they are by nature

The late 14th-century canonist, Aegidius de Bellamera, put it bluntly:
"But why are women removed from civil and public offices? The reason is
because they are fragile and usually less discerning." And further, "The
reason for the difference [between the roles of men and women] is on
account of the fragility, imbecility and less natural constancy and
discernment of women."

* The female judges of the Old Testament, according to the 12th-century
Summa Parisiensis, were "miracles ... more to be admired than to be
considered as an example for human action."

* Commenting on the ability of women to offer testimony in court cases,
the standard commentary on canon law (Glossa ordinaria) written in the
13th century, snidely remarked, "What is lighter that smoke? A breeze.
What is lighter than a breeze? The wind. What is lighter than the wind? A
woman. What is lighter than a woman? Nothing."

* Not only were women naturally weaker in will and mind than men, but also
in body. Following Pope Gregory the Great, the canonists called
menstruation a defect of women's nature that carried severe consequences.
Balsamon, the 12th-century Orthodox authority on canon law, explained that
menstruation was the reason for the disbanding of the office of deaconess.
"Once when the orders of canons of deaconesses were recognized, they had
their own status at the altar. However, the defilement of the ministry by
those menstruating expelled them from the divine and holy altar." The
Western canonists followed Isidore of Seville in describing the horrible
effects of menstruation: "And in fact this blood is so detestable and
unclean that ... through contact with it, fruits do not produce, wine
turns sour, plants die, trees lack fruit, the air darkens; if dogs eat
[the blood], they are then made wild with madness."

* The famous 13th-century canonist and cardinal Hostiensis copied Plato to
make this point, "The sex of women is naturally worse, hence commonly she
lives less long since she also has less natural heat and therefore as she
is more quickly ended, so she naturally ought to come to completion more
quickly.... Plato truly said that therefore this is so since weeds grow
more quickly than good plants."

* Women are also responsible for introducing sin into the world. Quoting
Ambrose, a law contained in the 12th-century Decretum explained, "Adam was
deceived by Eve, and not Eve by Adam. The woman summoned him to sin; it is
just that he takes on the guidance of her, lest he be ruined again by
female recklessness." The 13th-century canonist Guido de Baysio explained
that this is why a woman cannot receive orders: "A woman was the effective
cause of damnation since she was the origin of lying and Adam was deceived
through her, and therefore she was not able to be the effective cause of
salvation since Orders effects grace in another and thus salvation."
William of Rennes in the 13th century put it crudely: "A woman taught one
time and the whole world was overthrown."

Fewer people are aware of Raming's groundbreaking stud

A mere greetings from Pope, is it enough MR.Karunanidhi? Are you being
taken for a ride by POPE BENEDICT XVI who is hiding behind the
discriminatory Church laws?

To Conclude: Your democratically elected government is engaged in
selective discrimination against Hindus and their customs only, but not
applying the universal principles of Justice and equality of gender and
religion across all religions and genders equally.

Secondly your administration is engaged in selective discrimination
against theist Hindus only, and not against theistic muslims and
christians, which exposes the inherent bias, that you have.Many theists
have experienced discrimination,mainly from your government.These may not
always be so severe as to be called persecution,but they are indicative of
the social rejection of theists by minority atheists like yourself and
that majority Hindus who are theists who vote for you suffered through
decades under the discriminatory Dravidian forces like the DK and could be
sued according to prevalant international laws and banned for unlawful
violation of human rights.

Laura kelly


sam said...

this guy (rajeev) always has some exaggerated to talk about...has he done anything good to the society? never...the writer knws hw to blaspheme..and create divides between hindu - christians..lets say christians own 20% of the land....this has more than their personal use...used for the purpose of the indians...

who knows..u wud have been educated in a christian school..built on one of this land..grow up dude..and start writing positive blogs..

r2 said...

sam your brainwashed trash talk has no place here, you just look pathetic indulging in slander. Besides launching personal attacks with no prrof, a typical christist propaganda ploy btw, have you proven where Rajeev was wrong. All of Rajeev's comments are well researched, but then off course truth and facts are mere nuisances in the christist propaganda machine, ain't it?