Friday, June 24, 2005

moi on rediff: kerala's future water wars

jun 24

kerala will have water scarcity entirely because of keralites' stupidity and cupidity.

there is a price to be paid for reckless environmental destruction.

but as the late lamented james watt, ronald reagan's secretary of the interior, once said charmingly, the world's going to end (he thought in 2000 CE), so what me worry?

34 comments:

bodhi dharma said...

See some of the Kerala news(all on a signle day) which could justify your article..

1)To protect Muslim league's interest, destroy the Sabarimala holy path.
http://newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20050623142153&Page=R&Title=Kerala&Topic=0

2)Read today's editorial in punnyabhoomi and find more on land encroachments by the 'usual' mafia: http://punnyabhoomi.org/printEdition/Jun05/P-4_24-6-05.pdf

3)Biggest-ever land grab in the state using forged deeds in Idukki district (as usual thanks to communal Kerala congress, Marxists and the 'usual' religious leaders)
http://newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20050624022802&Page=R&Title=Kerala&Topic=0&

4)Keralakaumudi reports (http://www.keralakaumudi.com/news/062405M/kerala.stm#21) that inorder to save a convent, revenue dept (held by communal Mani of Kerala congress) plans to destroy 2 temples and a more-than-500 year old building!! This is to construct a roadway for Vallarpadom terminal. To save the convet, they had already put in extra effort to an unwanted curve!!
In Kerala, it's not stupidity at all.
5)http://kesarionline.org/www/details-template.php?nid=200
Read this and see how the govt. is fooling the sabarimala devotees by charging 6 crore for the non-forest lands from the devotees' offerings. But keep mum when 'others' loot the nearby forst lands by placing crosses here and there.
Do you know the Vavar mosque where all sabarimala bound 'ayyappans' offer their prayers and kaanikka (money) before they start the climb, is NOT under the Sabarimala deveswom!! Their revenue is never looted or touched by the govt.! I am sure Dharma-shastha will be pleased only if the devotees open their eyes and force the govt. to stop this daylight loot and double-standards and ensure social justice and equality for all.

You mentioned about a pond near Muttada. Where was it located exactly? Is it towards the Muttada-ambalamukkku direction? While going in the school bus,I remember, it was all green in that stretch . But now it's all filled up with concrete structures.

Anonymous said...

Rajeev
Interesting article. I have a few questions

1. In your piece you say this "The result has been a dramatic reduction in rainfall, as well as topsoil runoff, just as it happened in the Khasi Hills of Meghalaya around storied Cherrapunji after religious conversions there"- do you have a data source for the correlation between the conversions and top soil runoffs. I would like to read more on this

2. "This has allegedly depleted groundwater levels and dumped toxic sludge on local farmers as 'fertiliser', and its products are so full of pesticide that the US Food and Drug Administration refused to admit shipments from India! In addition, I am told Pepsi-Cola also has a (functioning) bottling plant in relatively dry Palakkad district. Interestingly, a one-man NGO, the India Resource Centre, has made so much noise, and made Coca-Cola's life so miserable, that this person, Amit Srivastava, got a front-page story in the Wall Street Journal." - As a Keralite, is the situation that bad as Amit makes it seem or are you in favor of these industries? Please expound

3. "It is an example of a foreign species wreaking havoc on native flora and fauna" - isn't this what we call globalization :-)

prasank said...

quote: "As a Keralite, is the situation that bad as Amit makes it seem or are you in favor of these industries?"

My response would be 'no'. I happend to talk to a member of the kerala polution control board that did review on the coke plant. At the time the ngo's were claiming that coke had about 100 wells when there were only about 6. This is the level of exagerration these ngo's go into.
During the time I also wondered why no one was talking about pepsi co's plant in the same locality. This led me to believe that the whole thing was part of the cola wars that was raging in India.
About the slug, there is some truth in that, even coke admitting to it. But regarding water problems, that region has always had water problems during summer. In fact, the cola compounds might be the only places in the district following scientific water management policies.
I am in favor of these industries. May be Rajeev should write more about this?

Anonymous said...

prasank
do you have a document where the NGO claims that coke had about 100 wells. I read the WSJ pice on Amit and I was intrigued but it never quoted 100 wells. This is new information

Anonymous said...

Without taking credit away from Amit, here's an analyses of what the WSJ story missed and some of the real issues involved in this campaign.

http://www.thesouthasian.org/archives/000391.html

This issue is more about water rights rather than Cola wars. That it is a multinational in this case, and a Cola company at that, is incidental to the real issue.
Historically in India, water was never owned by the State (or "king") neither were the forests. They belonged to the local communities. Exploitation of water as a commodity, with efficient usage metrics, etc etc are meant to hide the reality that water is a not a fundamental need/ commodity/resource, but a fundamental right for all human beings.

san said...

Regarding the comment against Globalization, I think you fail to understand that while Flora and Fauna have no power to adapt at the speed at which human beings do.

By your own same reasoning, Mr Anonymouse, isn't the entry of Islam or Christianity into India a form of this Globalization that you loathe? Their beliefs came from outside and disrupted local ways of life, didn't they? Just like foreign MNCs. So then would you show greater liking for KFC if they re-named themselves Khilafat Fried Chicken? Or are you claiming that some types of Globalization are good and some bad, depending on what phase of the moon is showing? Why not condemn Religious Globalization with the same zeal that you condemn economic globalization??

If you ask for consistency from others in their viewpoint, then demand it of yourself, please. Thanks. ;) ;)

Anonymous said...

If Indians have such a high IQ how is it they cannot figure out how to eliminate the water hyacinth - a billion people and not one suggestion?

I condemn religious globalization - all Hindus should stay in India since they are not allowed to cross the seas. People belonging to all other religions will bring in the "foren" exchange. Then you can "blame" the people of other religions for ruining "this great country" by "purchasing" all the land and converting it to plantations.

Anonymous said...

the above anonymouse is the same old 'kerala george', with increased complexes , hatred and sunday-school intolerance. forgive that sheep...

Narayanan

Anonymous said...

Kerala Christian genius obsessed with Hindus crossing seas, the foreign religionists did not *bring* any money into India, they came to loot it. Your fellow religionists took out huge amounts of money, and they are recycling that money now to convert more people to your blind faith. And they do not 'purchase' plantations, they grab public land and forests. Then KM Mani and other Christians will give out ownership certificates to them. This is all in keeping with your false religion, based on a guy who didn't exist. If you dont believe this is a 'great country', just leave it. Take all your fellow Christians with you. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

doubtinggaurav said...

Excuse me for butting in,
I thought we were talking about water...
How did religion come in the discussion

prasank said...

quote: ""Things grow better with Coke," read a headline in Britain's Guardian newspaper. But Mr. Srivastava admits the whole thing was a publicity stunt by local activists and farmers, and it's unclear how many farmers participated. "We played it up as well, obviously," he says."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05158/517150.stm

You might also remember stories that went round about how a human teeth melted in coke.

Not quite to the point you mentioned. But I guess you would now have got an idea about the way the agitators work.
What I said regarding the 100 wells is true and its not a new information. This was well publisized in malayalam channels "Asianet", "Kairali" and "Surya" and the local newspapers. This was the main allegation of the agitators during the initial struggle. Regarding these news items with me now, come on man, these are things that happend 3 years back. I dont have any paper cuttings with me. I am not that fanatic about these issues. :-)

prasank said...

google is great!!! I got the article I wanted in 5 mins search...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0209/S00036.htm
quote: "In its 17-hectare land, more than 65 bore-wells were sunk to extract the ground water for the production of Coke and Maza."

Now notice that this article has 65 bore wells. I am quite sure you will find other articles with varying number of bore wells.

quote:"Coca Cola factories have been attacked and destroyed such as in Andhra and Nepal."

Though this letter says only Andra and Nepal, I remember the coke factory in kerala also being destroyed with attackers damging the bottle shipments totally. That requires another googling...

san said...

Anonymouse, if you feel the water hyacinth is so easy to remove, please tell everyone how to remove it. On what basis do you claim that no suggestions are made to stop it? Perhaps the hyacinth is simply trying to "be fruitful and multiply".

Furthermore, what text are you quoting about not crossing the seas, and do you allow other religions special privileges in this regard? Is this the same text quoted for clitoral mutilation?

While Capitalism is a rational science that makes no pretenses about capital inflows and outflows, on free market choice and on competitive Darwinism -- on what historical basis do you justify theological competition -- The Opium Wars, perhaps? When competition for marketshare is encouraged among rival Opiates of the Masses then the ways and means for achieving market dominance tend to fall back to the same lowest commmon denominator used by Her Majesty in The Opium Wars, or by rival Drug Cartels in Columbia. If that's your preferred method for social improvement, why not state so openly? I've a feeling you'd rather not come clean on that one. :/

Capitalism and market competition for goods and services can generate a remedy against the water hyacinth a lot faster than your Competition in Opiates for the Masses can. Do you know why? It's because a practical issue like a cure for the water hyacinth is itself a good or service and thus benefits from competition in the wider market for goods and services in general. Meanwhile, Religious Globalization and theological competition can't do a thing to generate cures against the water hyacinth. Do you know why? Because water hyacinths don't read or obey the Bible or the Quran. I pity you for not understanding that, so that you have to be so flippant about it.

Your turn, Anonymouse.

Anonymous said...

san and other folks @ the blog

I was posing a question to Rajiv "isn't this what we call globalization :-)" - Maybe I forgot to add the question mark in the end but I swear it was a question. But thanks for the interesting comments

Anonymous said...

Why should I tell anyone how to remove the water hyacinth without adequate compensation?

In a previous comment to Anonymous you claimed "Why not condemn Religious Globalization with the same zeal that you condemn economic globalization??" as though that would fix the water hyacinth issue. First argue logically. At the very least read your previous posts. I would guess you are one of the legions of "software programmers" that India "exports" and have no clue on how to think logically let alone express an idea and hold a train of thought. After all when it comes to some "scientific evidence" neither you nor the Shadow Warrior can come up with any evidence to back up your idiotic comments.

If you or the Shadow Warrior can back up this assertion:

"The result has been a dramatic reduction in rainfall, as well as topsoil runoff, just as it happened in the Khasi Hills of Meghalaya around storied Cherrapunji after religious conversions there"

then I would be interested, otherwise these are just juvenile rants of a pompous ass.

WTF is "the basis of theological competition"? Since you are an atheist, why would you care? (Yes I have read your other posts on this blog too). It appears to me you want competition in all fields except "religion". Why are you so "afraid" of "capitalism and competition" in religion? Explain to me how the water hyacinth will be eradicated by some "capitalist" means if the cost for eliminating it is greater than the cost for leaving it alone and letting it grow?

Awaiting more BS from you, meanwhile chill out - drink Coke and/or Pepsi...or water.

Anonymous said...

Googling "How to treat Water Hyacinths"

http://technology.ssc.nasa.gov/suc_stennis_water.html

http://www.water-hyacinth.com/solution.html

Surely, the Shadow Warrior knows how to google and so does "san". All you care about is cheap points on the "conversion agenda" - whatever, that is. Must be the "scientist" and "patriot" in you.

Now that you have at least two viable solutions - both capitalistic, are you or the Shadow Warrior willing to implement it in Kerala or will you both be like the 90% who don't give a damn but can expound on the "virtues of capitalism" and the "glories of the free market economy" or will the excuse be that this is a "Christian" solution? Walk the walk, show your patriotism (in action) - anyone can talk.

Anonymous said...

If you or the Shadow Warrior can back up this assertion:

"The result has been a dramatic reduction in rainfall, as well as topsoil runoff, just as it happened in the Khasi Hills of Meghalaya around storied Cherrapunji after religious conversions there"

then I would be interested, otherwise these are just juvenile rants of a pompous ass.

Anon, while there are some interesting debates that are raised in this column, they are immediately tied (quite dubiously) to religion and the conversion agenda. I doubt if you'd get a response with proof for what was claimed in these columns. It is interesting, nonetheless, that the only explanation you'd recieve is a "quid-pro-quo:: we do because the Maoists do the same" argument..

tap, tap, tap Hello? Isn't that what the Shadow Warrior and san don't like about them and keep ranting about? :-/

Anyways, getting back to the topic on hand, what's the stand of Shadow warrior and team, and others who read this space, on the Coke/ Pepsi issue independent of globalisation, religious conversions and free market? :-) Even if the stand is based on Googling and not actual experience, it's a stand nonetheless.

san said...

Why do I care, Anonymouse?? This is like asking "since you're a male, why do you care about crimes against women?" The argument is so disingenuous, that it's no wonder Anonymouse doesn't feel enough conviction in what he says to even put a pseudonym behind his comments.

I'd like to ask -- what does religion have to do with capitalism and providing for earthly needs? "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." Certainly I find religious competition to be ugly, since it is a form of ethnic competition, just like racial antagonism. Why would you advocate communal competition from one side of your mouth, while decrying "communalism" (aka. communal competition) from the other side of your mouth? Don't you see your hypocrisy? There is a clear moral difference between being a peddler of opiates rather than a peddler of solutions. Religion provides opiates, while market economics provides solutions.

Man, you don't seem to understand the meaning of basic words -- whether it's words like "capital" or "cost". Regarding cost of removal vs cost of inaction -- if cost of inaction was negligable, then there would be no demand for removal.

Tell me, since you so easily Googled a hit on solutions for the water hyacinth -- can you tell me where Google came from? It didn't come from the Church or fall from the sky. It was a service generated by the free market, which deals with goods and services. How would you have Googled those webhits, had there been no free market to create it in the first place??

As far as my contribution to the needy goes, I'm comfortable with it. Please catalogue yours to back up your bravado.

Fortunately, market economics doesn't rely upon saviors nor upon bravado to function. Nobody has to taunt General Electric with, "Hey GE! Let's see you build better powerplants! I dare you! Don't you want to be Patriotic??" "Hey Toyota! You'd better improve your cars unless you want me to call you unpatriotic!"

Consumer choice can work its beneficial magic without having to fall back on crude schoolyard jibes.

No wonder Jesus hasn't come back to save us -- because he'd be greeted by people like you queued up to say "Hey Mr Fancy Son of God! So you abandoned us mortals for awhile to go abroad, didn't you! Let's see you work more miracles of Loaves and Fishes, if you want to prove you're patriotic!"

Your arguments are laughable and juvenile. Which is consistent with the overall socialist approach to solving people's needs.

san said...

As for the other anonymouse, regarding the drilling of borewells to fill Coke & Pepsi cans, market economics would say that if someone can quench villagers thirst with cheaper plainer water, then naturally they will competitively defeat Coke & Pepsi in the marketplace. This is common sense, and I'm surprised you'd not see that.

If you feel that production of Coke & Pepsi is superceding attention to basic village needs for water, then this is an indication that nobody is participating in the market demand for basic water provision. My question is, is it upto foreign MNCs Coke & Pepsi to go into this market, or is there nobody else available to do this?

How is it that developed countries are able to provide basic drinking water locally without clamoring to Coke & Pepsi for it? Municipal bonds are an example of how money can effectively be raised by local districts to fund and erect basic infrastructure, including provision of drinking water from things like bore-wells.

It's unfortunate that you're not aware of these more effective solutions, and would choose to put onus on Coke or Pepsi to provide drinking water, when it's not their area of specialization. Nevertheless, foreign MNCs do often build up infrastructure around them to maintain local goodwill.

How come your fellow sons of Mao in China are always tying up with MNCs, if it's so bad?

Have you ever heard of Municipal Bonds, or am I speaking Greek to you?
The Municipal Bond Market is very badly underdeveloped in India. This is the path to plentiful drinking water, and not pounding on the door of Coke, or Pepsi, or Toyota. But if going that latter route is more emotionally satisfying to you than mere logic or precedent, then I can't stop you.

Anonymous said...

"san" does not provide a better identity than anonymous or anonymouse. Interesting that you have not answered any of the questions. BTW nobody was asking about your "contributions" to the "needy". I am questioning your (and the Shadow Warrior's) commitment to "patriotism".

Hmmm, have you read this article and the book mentioned in the article? Sorry, I forgot you only read books that were written since you were born - all others are old and have no bearing on the "modern" world. Second, "theological competition" is within a religion, not between religions. Further, I am all for competition in all spheres of life - religion included. My question is why do you think religion should be excluded from such competition, especially if you are a capitalist? And your response makes no sense - you are equating "religious competition" with "ethnic competition" and "racial antagonism". According to your "capitalistic" outlook - religion is providing a service to the people that need it. (*You* may not need it but someone else would be interested in it) They can choose from any religion - let the market decide...Please don't be deluded into thinking that there is no "ethnic competition" in the global marketplace - it is alive and well.

Regarding cost of removal vs cost of inaction -- if cost of inaction was negligable, then there would be no demand for removal.

Let me get this straight - (from the article):

Finally, Kerala's famed backwaters and canals are being denuded of fish and aquatic plant life by the pernicious weed called the water hyacinth, which forms an impenetrable barrier that chokes off oxygen to whatever is beneath. It is an example of a foreign species wreaking havoc on native flora and fauna: it was introduced as an ornamental plant by somebody. Despite many attempts that fattened the wallets of various people, the authorities still have no answer to this noxious menace.

So you are saying that there is no "demand" to get rid of the water hyacinth? And the above paragraph is another one of those silly allegations that the Shadow Warrior can throw out and not be held accountable. However, if you think that the above paragraph is true, and the cost of removal is higher than the cost of inaction, what "capitalistic" means would you employ?(remember I provided two capitalistic answers).

san said...

Anonymouse, you don't even distinguish yourself from other anonymouses by using an identifiable nickname/alias. So I can't differentiate you from any of the other anonymouses.

Regarding my use of the phrase "theological competition" -- I best know my own intent in using a phrase. Theological competition, as I define it, can occur between any religious groups -- it's simply sectarianism. Certainly sectarianism is ethnic antagonism. And you're defending sectarianism.

Again, you haven't told me how religion amounts to capital. Are you trying to call it intellectual property? It's not patentable. It's an opiate, and you are a defender and peddler of opiates for the masses. As such, that means you don't even qualify as a real socialist.

Nextly, regarding the water hyacinth, I said obviously there is a cost of inaction which is highlighted in your own quote on it above, and therefore there is demand. Your assertion however that cost of removal is higher than cost of inaction is just your own. So if you're trying to mock private enterprise and say that "Only The Mighty State" can stop the evil water hyacinth, then I fail to see what grand point you're trying to make. Other than the fact that I'm arguing with a duffer.

nizhal yoddha said...

to buddha: the pond is on the way from ambalamukku to muttada.

ah, i see we have 'george''s younger brother, let's call him 'abraham' here, getting his knickers in a twist! 'george' has a little more by way of class than 'abraham'. 'abraham', since you are the google wizard, you go find out the stuff about the khasi hills and conversion. should be a breeze for you. this isn't like the fabrications you dearly love, you know. there was a major story in outlook or india today a few years ago. the khasis had their tribal religion which carefully husbanded the forests by protecting sacred groves which they left untouched. they converted to the religion of james watt (the logging and mining king) and immediately cut down the sacred groves. result: the forest died, serious runoff, erosion, no retention of water. they now have to cart water uphill from the plains despite the still-heavy rainfall. very sad story.

Anonymous said...

Oh puhleeze San. Now an atheist is redefining "theology". Isn't the "patriotism" that you and the Shadow Warrior hide behind, "sectarianism"? "The last refuge of scoundrels..."

You asked I'd like to ask -- what does religion have to do with capitalism and providing for earthly needs? and I explained the connection. Since you haven't read the article or the book, it is clear you don't want to engage in any sort of "reason" that undermines your basic assumption. So much for the "scientific" and "rational" stance that you regularly espouse - and you can neither prove the connection between conversions and topsoil runoff nor defend your rather incoherent position. I wonder which capitalist worth his salt will keep repeating a Karl Marx quote "Religion is the opiate of the masses". Apparently, this is the only sentence you know about any "-ism".

With regard to the water hyacinth, here is the kicker - there are commercial "capitalist" solutions available. You and the Shadow Warrior are not willing to "start a company in India" (the capitalistic way) to eradicate the water hyacinth, despite a "demand". Now, should the state step in to protect the flora or fauna or should the state wait for some befuddled blokes to start a company; and/or wait for the flora or fauna to adapt to the water hyacinth? (You claimed in an earlier post that "Capitalism can produce a cure for the water hyacinth problem" etc. so explain to me how "Capitalism" is going to implement this "cure")

As a citizen of India, I am not interested in the "problem" - most Indians know the "problem" - whatever the "problem". I am interested in the proposed solution and what you are doing to fix it. According to the Shadow Warrior's article, if conversions in Khasi stop, the topsoil runoff will reduce. Perhaps, if all the Christians or Muslims along the backwaters were to convert back to Hinduism, the water hyacinth menace would also reduce. And since we have cheap labour, why not get the RSS and the kar sevaks to do something useful for a change like this? That should generate some employment and keep them out of mischief. What is the point in becoming an "engineer" and writing some "yellow journalistic" articles? - any two-bit idiot can do that and hide behind such a "patriotic" act.

Anonymous said...

The RSS kar sevaks do a lot of good, just that the secular media -print and television, refrain from giving them their due to burnish their own "secular" credentials. RSS workers are always present be it train accidents, floods - if you recall, an occasional snapshot of RSS sevaks engaged in work would flash by on the DD news (may be because of sloppy editing). And they are more than willing to publish the photo of a woman in burqa "lending a hand" to weed out the water hyacinth - while there is a non-zero probability that there were many other volunteers (belonging to other religions) enganged in the same work too. And given your tone, it would be of no surprise to me if you would later claim that the state run DD was indulging in a conspiracy to elevate the status of the RSS workers (thru that passing clip on the screen). I know the thread has digressed way beyond what it was originally meant to discuss - but allow me to digress even further and state that minorities in India are afflicted with the siege mentality that is characteristic of smaller communities - but no amount of appeasement is going to allay those fears. So we should just disregard them after a certain humanly possible effort has been invested to include them.

Anonymous said...

First, I am not Christian or Muslim so invocations to the Gods of these religions are really not going to get a response out of me. If you want to call me Abraham, so be it.

I did do a search on Google and the only link I could find was this BBC report. Nothing from Outlook or India Today. Interestingly, there was another report on a mining website commissioned ironically for Christian Aid and MM&P. Perhaps the reference to "conversions" was in the local language newspaper because the English-language newspapers are "biased"? Now if only they had remained "tribal".....

prasank said...

Just an observation,

Is there a mass support for RSS in Kerala? ... NO. So, if there is no RSS in Kerala how can 'anonymous' expect the organization to clean up things?

The majority organazations (SFI, DYFI etc...) are more interested in cleaning up the old KSRTC buses? ^_^

san said...

Anonymouse, what explanation did you provide connecting religious theology with the earthly needs that the free market provides for? Please repeat it explicitly, as I couldn't find it in your babble. Please explicitly elaborate on how sectarian competition benefits society, and why you support sectarian competition.

I am perfectly fine calling religion the Opiate of the Masses, just as I don't mind quoting Marx's saying that "refugees are people who vote with their feet." I don't see how these sayings are diminished by the Marx's economic theories being bunk. Likewise, many atheists believe in the physics theories espoused by Einstein and Newton, even though both men were religious.

But I still don't understand what benefit you hope to see from stoking sectarian competition. I have explicitly responded to your questions while you have ducked every one of mine. What material benefit to society will accrue from sectarian competition, as compared to the material benefits of competition between providers of goods and services?

I see lots of chaotic heat emanating from you, but no coherent light.

Regarding the Water Hyacinth, you're quite the myope. It doesn't matter that private enterprise can't directly involve itself in each and every civic problem, since it provides the deeper base for innovation in goods and services that the State can then draw from. That's glaringly obvious, except to a duffer. I used to work for DuPont, which has invented many types of pesticides, herbicides, etc over the decades. They are even now selling genetically-modified pest-resistant crops, and are engaging in the kind of fundamental research that can be applied towards the type of pest control you're concerned about. (Altho obviously you're not concerned, you're just looking to erect a straw man anyplace you can. Emotionally satisfying for you no doubt, but not very productive or beneficial. No wonder India has remained without progress for 50 years with your ilk in charge)

Clearly the free market does not preclude the State from acting.
Private enterprise is not restricted to showing its benefits in the form of someone starting a company to eliminate the water hyacinth. It can certainly show its benefits by providing the state with a more diverse base of goods and services to help the state solve a problem such as this.

Look, you Leftists are obviously duffers, so the only reason I'm asking you to use an alias, is so that I can tell which duffer I'm arguing with.

Web Inspector said...

With all due respect to you, Mr. Srinivasan, you are a compulsive liar.

Sorry for deviation from the core issue of your Rediff article (which I largely agree with, at least on the seriousness of the matter).

As suggested, I (George for you) googled, and found this:

http://www.humanscape.org/Humanscape/new/june01/themaking.htm

I too had earlier believed your lie propaganda that the religious
conversion had caused the Khazis' disrespect to their forests. But the
link above (and many other links) says that the deforestation is caused by the practice of shifting-cultivation called 'Jhum' and mining. The deforestation has nothing to do with religion. The sacred groves are still protected by Khazis, but all forests are unfortunately not sacred groves.

What next? Shall we claim that the death of Nila (Bharathapuzha) is due to the fact that Hindus remain Hindus, and therefore should be converted? Bharathapuzha flows thru Hindu Heartland, hardly any Christian settlers on its banks. Of course, this is a question for the sake of a question, all of us know that the evil Christians are bribing the poor Hindus to dig the river to death.

Srinivasan, I repeat, you are a pseudo-nationalist. Were you a dutiful
son of this nation, you wouldn't run to the US, after collecting a heavily-subsidized, thank Nehru for that ;-) IIT degree. And even if you do (many do in fact, nothing wrong with working abroad), you will do something more than just spewing hatred and making life more miserable for those back home.

When you have free time, read Atanu Dey's "Who paid for my education"

http://www.deeshaa.org/who-actually-paid-for-my-education/

These are the kind of people that Indians would respect, not silly 2 bit hate-mongers like you.

Indians don't need your crocodile-tears. Be happy counting your dollars.

To the poster who blames every post 'with a tone of disagreement' on GEORGE: I don't post anonymous anymore.

And to the poster who advised all Christians to pack-off: Please
understand that the right to live in this country is not based on
subscription to specific faith(s).


Thanks,

George the "Drain Inspector"


ps: I request other NRI readers not to maul me, I have no disrespect for NRIs, but I despise those with false nationalism and faked-concern for the nation. It is even despisable to see those who use religion as a tool to settle petty hatred. I use the word 'fellow-countrymen' assuming that Srinivasan is still an Indian citizen.

Anonymous said...

George the drain inspector, you are a good little Abrahamist because you lie through your teeth. If you are not a Christian, why do you get defend your little cult so vigorously? You Christians should buzz off to your disgusting desert, you are polluting this great country. You are devil-worshippers and death-worshippers. You worship a crucified corpse. Yours is a false religion created by the devil, intended to destroy God's creations.

Web Inspector said...

Anonymous poster above,

I am not sure why you say I am a liar. I have never said I am a Christian, and I have never said I am not. Show one comment of mine where I lied. My point was that Rajeev lied, and I have proved it. Don't try to divert the focus by name-calling and insults.

Your comments about religion noted, shows extremely good upbringing. Congratulations, your mom must be proud of you.

Thanks,
George the "Drain Inspector"

Anonymous said...

refer the May 5 newindpress.com report on 'snake groves' in kerala:

"Alarming depletion of ‘kavus'

Thursday May 5 2005 12:51 IST
KOLLAM: The alarming rate of depletion of the sacred groves (Sarpakavu/Kavu), an integral part of the cultural life, is posing a serious threat to the environment of the state and its rich bio-diversity.

The number of sacred groves in the state has been reduced to 2000 from 15,000 in 1827, according to study reports.

Most of the sacred groves vanished owing to the changing socio-economic conditions and the land use system. Illegal cutting of trees, planting with exotic species not suitable to the place, encroachment, fire, cattle grazing, collection and removal of biomass, collection of green manure and fuel-wood, mining of China clay and laterite bricks, high pressure on land owing to the increase in the population and above all the weakening of the faiths have been identified as the factors that led to the depletion.

However, the sacred grove spread over more than 4 acres of land around the Vana Durga Temple at Eravipuram near Kollam tells a different story. Despite the high pressure on land in this coastal area, the Cheroor Sree Rama Rama Samskarika Samithi, a family trust which runs the affairs of the Kavu and the temple, was contributing all its best to preserve the sacred grove even though the total area of the grove had been reduced considerably owing to encroachments during the past few years.

The Kavu, popularly known as Velliayazhcha Kavu, as Friday is believed to be the favourite day of the deity in the temple, is rich of very rare species of plants and animals. Odalpazham, a fruit with high medicinal value, is lavishly found in the grove. During summer the kavu turns an abode for the migratory birds such as Siberian cranes.
"
everyone knows who are the masters of land encroachments and forest mafia under the able guidance of X-ian politicians in Kerala. Just visit central travancore to see their atrocities on our ecology. (thanks to KM Mani and his frock wearing Bishops)

Krishna

Anonymous said...

It is funny to blame Marxists for those empty paddy fields. What is wrong in insisting minimum wages for poor farm-workers ? I am surprised that you did not bring Nehru in this story. When did mallus work in the paddy fields ?

Anonymous said...

I remember you are that genuis who wrote that tsunami attacked Tamilnadu coz Kanchi Seer was arrested. You mallus are stingy about giving few TMCs of water in Periyar Dam. Thatz why God's own country is becoming Dog's own country.

Anonymous said...

You are just one of those capitalistic coolies..