Friday, July 20, 2007

We will reconsider N-deal if we return to power: Yashwant Sinha

As all the non-PM's men are busy negotiating away the country's nuclear sovereignty in the US for the past 4 days, this statement from the BJP seems to be the only silver lining in the dark clouds...

19 comments:

TallIndian said...

Saw on rediff where the Pakis are blaming the Indians for the all the recent violence.

Pakis claim it is Indian trained Afghan suicide bombers.

Harish said...

Good news...

But i am worried if this sets a bad precedent if BJP were to go ahead with this threat when it comes to power..

Until now, successive govt's have never reneged on India's international commitments on strategic issues or foreign policy. We have always had a broad consensus on foreign policy (whether that policy was good or bad is a different question)..

Now for the first time, in independent India's history, this govt is creating fissures in this well acccpeted norm..
This does not bode well for policy making by any future govt...


In my opinion, I think we may be the seeing the lowest point in independent India's government. Surprisingly there is absolutely no furore in India

karyakarta92 said...

If and when the BJP does return to power & if and when they do renege on this emasculating "deal", India will only be in the august company of the U.S.A as far as reneging on international commitments (refusal to ratify the CTBT, reneging on commitments to supply fuel for the Tarapur plant, the START treaty, NATO encroachment into Russia's Eastern European backyard etc).

This is indeed the lowest point in the history of independent India, the world's largest dhimmocracy.
The hard won freedom secured by the sacrifices of Indian patriots over a period of 1300 years is being surrendered by an entity who would not even win a municipality election.

The BJP, if it returns to power, should not only "reconsider" this shameful deal, but also resume open ended testing of nuclear devices and ICBM's, i.e until India actually has a genuine
"deterrent" and credible delivery mechanisms to deter any potential aggressor. Real great powers are not manufactured by taking a few crumbs thrown by existing superpowers.

There is really no alternative to genuine self reliance in defense matters and to development of the military muscle to defend India's economic growth.

Presently, however - the scenario described in the fiction
"Dragonfire" seems all too likely, i.e an adversary like China or Pakistan nuking India and the Indian dhimmocrats not authorising a second strike. Under MMS, this fictional scenario appears to be a worrisome reality.

Arvind said...

This is a tall claim. BJP cannot be trusted. They were the ones who were eager to send Indian soldiers to die in Iraq so that the White man's life may be saved. The reason it did not happen is George Fernandes.

The dream of BJP leaders is to earn pats on their backs from White men. Notice how Netanyahu said that the chicken had come home to roost when the 9/11 attacks happened, and how Putin snubbed US saying that he will fight terrorists independently. Contrast this with Vajpayee's reaction, "Massa, massa! Please massa! Let me be your slave. You can use Indian bases for whatever you want!"

LK Advani's dream was fulfilled when Bush broke protocol and gatecrashed into his meeting with Condoleeza Rice. You should have seen the photo of his beaming face.

The Americans only know this too well. They only have to use flattering words and the top BJP leaders would fall over themselves to please the Whites. Hence the invitation to Vajpayee to attend the G-8 lunch and the periodic statements on how India is a superpower.

If BJP comes to power, we know what they will do -- they will increase Haj subsidies, add more control over Hindu temples while subsidizing Madrasas, give royal treatment to terrorists who hijack planes by accompanying them to their home countries in luxury aircraft, release terrorists, and sing paeans about Islamofascists like Jinnah.

They will backstab Hindus and proudly claim that they have no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent lust for power and permanent craving for pleasing the White man.

No one is getting fooled by Sinha's tall claims. Fool me once , shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Harish said...

@Arvind,
You are right man..however i wud beg to differ.. BJP's rule was not without its share of failings.. But even a layman can say BJP's rule inspite of all its follies left India a better place than when they came to power. We had better roads, a plan for better defense, dare i say better ministers (Arun Shourie, George Fernandez etc)..Fr e.g Though i felt Murli Manohar Joshi was damn stupid with some of his IIM policies..wudnt u agree its beter any day to have him as our HRD minister than an Arjun Singh..

For all its problems.. BJP is India's best bet. They are atleast nationalistic, care about their country and Indians for all that I care.. Barring idiots like Sudheendra Kulkarni and few shoooting their mouths RSS types.. they believe in a strong India..and thats why i think we should give them our support.

What say?

karyakarta92 said...

Most Hindu nationalists are thoroughly disappointed with the BJP. It is primarily due to their
drifting away from their core agenda and entertaining dhimmis like Sudheendra Kulkarni. Yashwant Sinha is another career babu who made his political debut for the "samajwadi" parivar, i.e. the centrists/spcialists and switched allegiance to the BJP in the late 90's. There were rumours recently that he was hobnobbing with Maulana Singh Yadav. Now, although I'm personally disillusioned with the BJP and unimpressed with their track record in office, it is a fact that there is no alternative platform for Hindu nationalists.
And all of us Hindus have to share part of the blame for this, in that we do not go out and vote on election day and keep complaining
when the result of that is shikhandi MMS as P.M.
The BJP may have performed better if it had a simple majority in the Lok Sabha.
However, All said and done, Vajpayee & Advani have devoted over 60 years of their lives to the Hindu cause and one cannot doubt their patriotism and personal integrity.
They were indeed instrumental in developing India's nuclear doctrine, moving forward with the missile program, strategic relations with Israel etc. Although the declaration of no first use, voluntary unilateral moratorium on testing etc are deeply flawed, the Indian people could atleast count on the BJP (or for that matter, the late Indira Gandhi & Rajiv Gandhi) to ensure an effective second strike on Pakistan.
MMS & company cannot be trusted for that.

KapiDhwaja said...

Arvind, you have a choice. The "bad-bad" BJP or the "good-very good" Kangress under Sonia & Manmohan supported by the communist traitors.

If you opt for the latter, then why bother and complain & have this Hindu Nationalist blog?

Arvind said...

Kapidhwaja,

This is not the official blog of BJP. It would be unfair to Rajeev if you make it a pre-conition for others to support the BJP before they participate on this blog.

The choice you give is a false dichotomy. BJP and Congress are two sides of the same coin. And do you know the reason? Vajpayee is a Jawaharlal Nehru wannabe. Why do you assume that those who reject the pro-Muslim policies of the Nehru-wannabe automatically support Nehru?

BJP lacks vision. Their reason for testing the nuclear bomb was not due to any vision, but due to the belief that they could join the White boys' club and feel proud about it. IOW, the right action for the wrong reason.

I agree with Harish that Arun Shourie and George Fernandes did their jobs well. However, BJP collaborated with hate groups like the DMK that indulge in violent actions.

Besides, it is BJP that keeps saying that India needs a two party system, with BJP on one side and the other with Congress (i.e., Nehru family) on the other. I am not the one who supports the Nehru family. BJP does that.

BJP's claim about the nuclear bomb is a laughable one. Do you seriously believe that they will displease the Americans? That will shatter their dreams of pleasing the Whites.

BJP earned its just desserts from Shiv Sena which treated BJP as its temporary friend and supported the crook from Maharashtra in the Presidential election.

KapiDhwaja said...

You are right. This is not the BJP's official blog. And I haven't made it a condition for people to support the BJP either. I was merely pointing out the choices we have. I myself have criticised the BJP before in this blog.

So from what you are saying, the Kaangress is better than the BJP. If that be so, why not have another 50 years of Kaangress rule. After all they already did that for most part of the last 50 years.

So going back to your saying, "If you fool me once...", what do we have to say of ourselves(Indians in general) to have been fooled by the Kaangress repeatedly for the past 50 years?

Arvind said...

Can you give the exact quote where I said that Congress is better than the BJP?

KapiDhwaja said...

Well from my limited intelligence and your quote of "If you fool me once...", I was merely inferring that you believed the Kaangress was better than the BJP.

Arvind said...

So it is your inference without any basis.

If you had read my post properly, you would have seen that I equate Congress and BJP, I don't support one over the other. That is what "two sides of the same coin" means.

I also gave you the information about BJP wanting to be like Nehru and gave you enough examples of their appeasement of Islamofascists.

Unlike you, I do not believe that appeasement of Muslims by BJP is better than appeasement of Muslims by the Congress. It makes no difference to me either way.

Harish said...

@Arvind..

BJP for all it follies (there's quite a few of them) is a nationalist party.Period. I dont think u r gonna deny that r u ?

Congress, after the demise of all it nationalists in "accidents", is a supplicant to the west and is damaging to our country in all shapes and form.. Do we need any more evidence than our current "PM"..

Its good to be critical of BJP, but IMHO opposing it and brushing it with the same paint as Congress is not correct and logical...

My 2 cents!!

siva said...

I agree with both Arvind and Harish :-)

Hear me out. I myself had the same feeling that BJP was turning out to be another CONgress, not now but some 3 to 4 years back itself, even when they were in power. They started talking nonsense like high command, kicking out dissidents in the name of discipline, no real democracy, no devolution of powers to state units etc. Basically they were making the same mistakes of CONgress of 50’s and 60’s. In that way they were becoming more like CONgress, as Arvind said "two sides of the same coin".

On the other hand it is also the only nationalistic party left in India. Remember CONgress also used to be a nationalistic party in its earlier years before it became a fiefdom of Nehru family.

So IMHO what we are witnessing is a slow degradation of BJP, just like CONgress went through, from nationalist to also ran another P-Sec, kind of second CONgress party.

That’s why RSS, which has its own shortcomings, decided to take more control over central leadership and functioning of the BJP, first step of which was removing Advani from Presidentship. In this cause we have to support RSS in whichever way we can and get rid of all the P-Secs from BJP.

san said...

I don't think it's BJP's ideology which is flawed, it's just that leaders like the poet Vajpayee, the journalist Advani, the academic Joshi, the backroom dealer Rajnath lack the populist mass-marketing power to grip the public's imagination. BJP suffers from a leadership crisis rather than an ideological crisis. The rift between the party upper echelons and the rank-and-file over Swadeshi, economic reforms, etc can be healed if the reforms are switched towards offering blue-collar employment for the masses, rather than only helping the upper layers of society with service sector growth.

Arvind said...

siva,

cut to the crux of the issue, would BJP really have displeased the Whites on this issue? The answer is NO. Their dream is to please the Whites. That is the point.

siva said...

Arvind said>>> cut to the crux of the issue, would BJP really have displeased the Whites on this issue? The answer is NO. Their dream is to please the Whites. That is the point.

Well that is your opinion and I don’t agree with it. Here is why.

Yes BJP was thinking about sending troops to Iraq provided they will fight ONLY under Indian flag and their own territory to guard, just like British are doing in Basra. Americans insisted on Indians reporting to them and BJP said go to hell with it.

BJP administration conducted second series of Sakthi nuclear tests after Clinton’s ridiculous “warning” and after that the yanks understood they are really dealing with a different kind of Indian government this time and completely changed their language and tone.

Yashwant Sinha when told by EU in Europe that India should stop looking at the world thru prism of Pakistan immediately hit back at them saying EU should stop looking at India thru prism of Pakistan and now we have come to a stage where EU is saying Pakistan is to be blamed for terrorism in Kashmir.

BJP government literally told the freakin Aussies to f@%& off with their “protests” after nuclear tests and now they are crawling for joint defense training with India.

There are many other examples where BJP government did not care for what white men thought.

So lets give credit where it is due and mindless criticism does not help anybody.

If you still think that BJP’s dream is to please whites then you are entitled to it, but you are WRONG.

karyakarta92 said...

Here's a few examples of the BJP displaying some spine:

1. A.B Vajpayee as P.M, criticising and boycotting Nelson Mandela at the NAM summit in South Africa where Mandela had sermonised to India on the Kashmir issue.

2. A.B Vajpayee as P.M, refusing to speak to Malaysia's Mahathir Muhammad in a state banquet and threatening to end palm oil imports from Malaysia, when Mahathir had criticised India on Kashmir at the OIC summit.

3. The BJP government's act of banning all Australian ships from Indian ports after the Australian description of Pokhran 2 as "an outrageous act of nuclear bastardy"

4. Shri Jaswant Singh's performance on CNN, visiting the U.S after Pokhran 2. Some Barbara Walters type asked him :

CNN: "There is a perception in the west that India is being increasingly hegemonistic ....."

J.S : "India does not NECESSARILY have to agree with that perception"


CNN: "Isn't it true that India looks at China, even more than Pakistan, with some trepidation ?"

J.S: "India does not look at ANYBODY with trepidation"

5. The BJP govt was being pilloried for "persecution" of christists. Shri Vajpayee responded deliciously with "There should be national debate on conversions" !

6. The BJP was being subjected to commie propaganda on the Gujarat riots. Shri Vajpayee responded with
"Aag kisne lagayee ?"
(Who lit the fire ?)
and
"Shuruvaat kisne kee ?"
(Who started it all ?)

Still, Overall I share your disappointment with the BJP's mellow performance in power and their current status as the Congress's B team. It surely hurts when your own people betray you.

Obviously, the BJP is *far* from perfect and we have every right to criticise their ideological erosion, behavioural misdemeaor and violation of organisational discipline, criticism which should be fair and discriminate - with the aim of course correction.

The RSS is the only bulwark against total dhimmmification of the BJP. And since there is no other pan-India political party that articulates nationalist causes, we need to try and salvage the BJP minus dhimmis like Sudheendra Kulkarni, Sushma Swaraj (who dismissed the Ayodhya issue as an encashed cheque) etc, rather than criticise them indiscrimately and unfairly.

KapiDhwaja said...

And to add to Siva and Karyakarta's comments, when the Yanks asked India to talk to Musharraf after Paki terrorist attacks, Yashwant Sinha retorted by telling the Yanks, that they should perhaps talk to Osama bin Laden instead of attacking him. So much for the BJP wanting to please the white men...