http://dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=parthasarathy%2Fparthasarathy146%2Etxt&writer=parthasarathy
Post-Glasgow, I am sick of Indian-journos saying that 'we always thought our Muslims are not susceptible to Jihaad' . Really? Who are the 'we'?
Most readers on this forum ALWAYS thought that Indian Muslims ARE susceptible and actively involved.
It's just that the people the Indian Muslims killed so far were Indian Hindus - hence that does not count as terrorism. It's only when they kill the precious white-skinned foreigners in England that we wake up to the possibility of Indian Muslim Jihadis.
Notice how Parthasarthy (that old Nehru-family acolyte) excuses 'some Indian terrorism due to Babri Masjid and Gujarat riots'. Really? Why were the Kashmiri Pundits driven out of their homes in 1989 when neither of these events had happened? Or wait - perhaps Kashmiri Muslims were not Indian Muslims? In fact there were no violent Indian Muslims at all until Babri demolition happened. After which they all suddenly turned into 'aggrieved Indian Muslims'. And they became positively, irrevocably Indian only after the Gujarat 'riots' - when every persona they ever had was subsumed into the 'justified in violence aggrieved, Indian Muslim' identity! However, they were not Jihadi - they were merely 'aggrieved'
24 comments:
I have heard often about rationalization of islamic terrorism due to Babri structure demolition and Gujarat violence. Why do these rationalist forget to extend their "logical conclusion" - Could it be that the Babri structure was destroyed due to centuries of pent up hindu anger due to demolition of various religious centers by the muslims? There were numerous documented struggles for liberation of Ram Temple even before 1993 and even before current geography India was carved out.
Alas! The secular preaching is only for the Hindus.
I agree. In fact most of what most of the journalists write these days is so rehashed, so cowardly and so short-sighted that I dont even read after a few lines.
Some of them like outlook and frontline - I dont know why they are hell bent on being the worst kind of crooks.
Sorry for being OT, but here is what the GOP thinks of Hinduism.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/07/historian_barton_says_hindu_pr.php
This is not a religion that has produced great things in the world," he observes. "You look at India, you look at Nepal -- there's persecution going in both of those countries that is gendered by the religious belief that is present there, and Hindu dominates in both of those countries."
TallIndian,
That is an incredible link. The comments on the thread are an eye opener. everyone on this forum should read the comments on that thread
I agree. It is eye-opening and a must not miss link.
I posted a comment at that article about 3 hours back. I wrote that the christian scholars do not understand hinduism when they call it worship of many false gods.
I wrote clarifications - that Hinduism is essentially monotheistic, and some other things. I wrote it under "hinduscholar".
THEY DID NOT POST IT! But have allowed more rants from US christians to go through.
At least we now get the true picture about them, and their true thoughts and feelings and we see their "liberalism" openly.
Everyone should hold on to a copy of that link until we have shown those countries that what they think about Hinduism is all wrong.
I think the comments at that article are highly censored and filtered. No Hindu voices seen there. Only rants and raves from bigoted and "saved" american christians.
hopefully pope will soon call all churches except his own as pagan, instead of stopping short as he did recently (he only called them "wounded").
it will help us a lot. the number of pagans will go up. very few will be left to ascend to heaven.
I wasn't able to post at the site either.
I'd be curious to see how many senators show up for the prayer opening.
Pat Robertson ran for President back in 1980. He came out and said that Hindus were unqualified to serve in his cabinet.
Given his power over the GOP, I think he will crack the whip and few GOOPERs will show up.
Six-stix said>>>> wrote clarifications - that Hinduism is essentially monotheistic, and some other things. I wrote it under "hinduscholar".
This is another kind of aping for white man’s approval. Why do Hindus have to “prove” that Hinduism is monotheistic? First of all what position are the Christists in to decide which form of worship is correct. Monotheism essentially arised out of lack of imagination and from a set of desert nomads who do not know what freedom of thought is. My guru said that if there are 6 billion humans in this world there ought to be 6 billion different religions. Hinduism does not have any sort of central dogma; so you may choose your God as you wish, heard of “Ishta Devata”. And Hinduism is the only religion where one can be an agnostic and a Hindu at the same time. And that my friend is called FREEDOM; the one pompous Americans are trying to spread in the Middle East. Everyone needs freedom OF and FROM religion and Hinduism is the only religion that allows it.
My point is we don’t have to prove anything to close-minded bigots. If they say they hate our religion because we are polytheistic or for any other reason all we have to say is – f--- you bigot, period. There is no room for debate and there is no need for us to prove anything.
Siva,
I wish I had kept a copy of my entire post to repost it here. I dont have it.
Anyway, I really believe Hinduism is monotheistic. Which is why I say there is misunderstanding in the west and among Christian scholars.
If you feel Hindusim is polytheistic, I certainly dont want to get into any argument with you. Feel free to believe that.
And I am not "aping the west" for their "approval".
I am telling them what it is. That's all.
And by the way, there is no "Hindu atheist". There is only "atheist".
There is no "Hindu agnostic", there is only "agnostic".
Hindus dont mind if anyone is atheist or agnostic.
And I could have called myself "hindu-layman" instead of "hindu-scholar". That was just for posting at the article.
Even the humblest layman who worships all kinds of gods and forms in his or her temple, when he/she talks to someone in a crisis, they say things like "bhagvan ki kripa", or some reference to "kadavul" (tamil) and so on (choose any indian language of your choice....you will find the same).
This is why I say monotheistic.
Now, this is a "wake up call" for me with respect to
Shri Parthasarathy. The nation can do without this genre of closet dhimmis - G. Parthasarathy, B. Raman, C. RajaMohan,
K. Subramanyam, Praveen Swami
et al, who pass off as "national security experts" or "strategic thinkers". Someone on this blog succinctly described B. Raman as "half intelligent". This is the distinguishing characteristic of a career bureaucrat, I suppose. These windbags refuse to even name the enemy in their voluminous articles, despite knowledge of the same. How, exactly is B. Raman an expert? Would the nation be facing this mortal danger today, if Raman & his ilk had actually authorised strong punitive action against the enemy during their careers in GOI, instead of being a babu all their lives ? I mean, look at the length of Raman's articles in Outlook. These guys just want to - talk, talk, talk & more talk.
Which is why Vladimir Putin initially refused to support permanent Indian membership in the U.N Security Council, on the grounds that he "did not want it to become a debating society" !
After all, GOI would have nominated a windbag/closet dimmi like Raman or Parthasarathy who would have ended up demonising "Hindu fundamentalists".
A closet dimmi such as Parthasarathy may appear better than a full blown dhimmi like Shivraj Patil/MMS, but in my opinion, there is no practical difference.
And, guys - there is room for both monotheistic/polytheistic strains within Hinduism. We have nothing to be ashamed of. We need not apologise for idolatry and say that not all Hindus are idolatrous, such as the Arya Samaj etc. With all due respect to them, I say that am an idol worshipper and proud to be so. There is nothing wrong with it and it's infinitely better than jihad/crusade for some crazy cause inspired by blind faith in a book written by an illiterate paranoid schizophrenic from a primitive desert society.
Christism = Mohammedanism - Muhammad
Marxism = Christism - Christ
Western Liberalism = Marxism - Marx/Mao
ok, it is just a terminology problem.
what you mean above by monism, and what I mean by monotheism, are same.
However, monism actually "everything is one". something like advaita.
all hindus dont subscribe to advaita, so we cant go that far and say Hinduism is Monism.
Monism is only one stream of Hinduism.
dictionary meaning of the word monism:
1 a : a view that there is only one kind of ultimate substance b : the view that reality is one unitary organic whole with no independent parts
2 : MONOGENESIS
3 : a viewpoint or theory that reduces all phenomena to one principle
I still prefer the word Monotheism for the underlying belief in one Supreme.
The polytheism in Hinduism is only in the forms.
about:
"There is ONLY ONE GOD and if you don't believe in him,you are doomed."
-- That is not Monotheism. That is CULT'ism
@karyakarta..
I have really liked some of u r posts here..
But i am not too sure i completely agree with u r most recent one..
I am not sure Parthasarathy (former Indian amabassador to Pakistan) and B.Raman really deserve so much of u r anger like some of the others you mentioned.
Do you have any specific examples to prove their dhimminess.
Lets also not forget bureaucrats by nature are bound by the political masters of the time and dont have much leverage in matters, espescially in intelligence etc. Like in most other issues, they simply execute the poltical commands.
B.Ramaan espescially, along with the legendary Kao were one of India's original spy masters...He is one of the few individuals, who write about such things (intelligence, statecraft) etc from an insider perspective. Unlike US or UK,in India such insights is extremely rare, is invaluable and needs to be appreciated. There may have been cases when I havent agreed with his analsysis, but simply brushing him as a Dhimmie is not right..
But i am willing to hear u out if you have information that i have not come across...
Harish,
I'm just venting my frustration with Indian babudom.
That's why I stated that "This is a wake up call for me" - because I have read Parthasarathy's articles previously and did not expect this
from him. B. Raman, on the other hand writes about "Hindu fundamentalists", Ayodhya demolition & Gujarat riots being the reason for the disillusionment of Muslim youth in India etc.
In December, 1946, over 30,000 Hindus were killed by muslim league thugs in a single day
in their "direct action" in Calcutta. Tell me, what was the "Hindu fundamentalist" provocation for that ?
And, that C. Rajamohan keeps writing in the Indian Express in favour of the nuclear "deal" which the Yanks are using to emasculate our nation. Don't get me wrong.
I vehemently disagree with this equation of islamic terrorism & Hindu nationalism. B. Raman, Praveen Swami are prone to this in their writing, therefore become unwitting propagandists for the jihadis. BTW, most of these folks are *retired* bureaucrats, so are they really bound by any political masters now ?
How is this different from Shekhar Gupta of the Indian Express telling Newsweek that "Hindu terrorists" had bombed Jama masjid in Delhi ?
I have to add other softies like Brajesh Mishra, A.B Vajpayee & L.K Advani to the list.
After the Diwali eve bombings in Delhi, which were deliberately targeted at Hindus when all muslims were indoors for their Iftaars, Advani came out with this ridiculous statement that the terrorists have "targeted Diwali and Eid".
Also, let me clarify for your benefit, that my frustration with them has *absolutely nothing* to do with the fact that these babus are call Tamils.
I, myself am a "South Indian" Hindu and I'm frustrated with dhimmis in general, whether they're
"North Indian" Hindu/
"South Indian" Hindu/
Sikh/Jain/British/American/French/
Scandinavian etc.
Now, it is possible that my description of "closet dhimmi" is not uniformly applicable to all of
them. Perhaps, some of them,
particularly, the well meaning Indians like Parthasarathy & Raman are "sub conscious dhimmis" or "genetic dhimmis".
@karyakarta
I share your frustration man..
Well my poser had absolutely nothing to do with which part of India he came from...
@Harish,
BTW, I completely agree with you on the paucity of people in India who seriously analyse and write about intelligence/national security/statecraft etc.
Indeed - I think there is really a lack of serious journalism.
The Indian news media has been reduced to tabloid/masala reporting. The newspapers blindly regurgitate stories from Reuters, AP,BBC even when they pertain to *India*, repeating ad nauseam how "Kashmir is a disputed territory" etc. Why do we need to read this in any *indian* newspaper.
And, I have to say, despite vehemently disagreeing with their worldview, that "The Hindu" is one of the few remaining practitioners of serious journalism in India.
By reading them, one can atleast comprehend what the ideological adversary is thinking.
There are a few of course, like Bharat Karnad, Brahma Chellaney etc. And, I actually do respect & appreciate others like B. Raman & G. Parthasarathy for writing about important issues, though I do wish they were more forthright in calling a spade a spade.
Raman's most recent analysis on Outlook!..certainly not words that come out of a Dhimmi
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20070712&fname=raman&sid=1&pn=1
wat else can we do, but cry at our beloved India going to the dogs
I am a dhimmi
I am a moth
I spew forth
Damn lies
From inside my tummy
I am a dhimmi
I like treason
If it has a reason
We kill
You get the bill
Terror is my pet chummy
I am a dhimmi
The world should die
To satisfy
My need for heaven
But all the heathen
Just make it scummy
I am a dhimmi
Men are cattle
To slay in battle
Woman is a cow
For me to plough
You call that rummy?
Beware I am a dhimmi
Yes, very lamentable that our nation is being led by such a bunch of miserable dhimmis of all parties. But, consider the possibility that we're being too harsh on poor dhimmi MMS. After all he's a career sarkari babu, having spent a lifetime obeying "political masters". So, to attribute any original ideas, howsoever nebulous, to him may be unfair. He might be simply parroting the EU/British directive
to not identify Muslims as terrorists !
No dhimmi can claim now that there are no homegrown indian muslim jihadis. But, it is immaterial to us whether they are affiliated to Al Qaeda or not. They may not have openly joined AQ in the past - because they have no need to.
They can have their way in dhimmi India - massacring, raping, looting, doing whatever they feel like to the Hindus - with no real fear of any punitive consequences.
i.e, when they're having a turkey shoot with Hindus, why would they want to wage jihad against white people, who are likely to respond less weakly.
BTW, in the interest of being fair to all caste/linguistic/regional groupings, here's an (incomplete) list of dhimmis from across India.
Please feel free to add your dhimmi of choice to the appropriate grouping.
Bihari dhimmis - Shyam Saran, Lallu Yadav, Ram Vilas Paswan
UP dhimmis - Mulayam Yadav, Amar Singh, Ranganath Mishra, Sandeep Pandey, V.P Singh
Tamil dhimmis - Karunanidhi, Ramadoss
Bengali dhimmis - Jyoti Basu, Buddhadeb Bhattacharya, Brinda karat
Punjabi dhimmi - I.K Gujral, Kuldip Nayyar, Khushwant Singh, Rajinder Sacchar, Navjot Sidhu
Telugu dhimmis - C.B Naidu, Chandrashekhar Rao
(YSR is a christist)
Kannada dhimmis - Deve Gowda, H.D Kumaraswamy, Dharam Singh
M.P dhimmi - Sharad Yadav
Maratha dhimmis - Shivraj Patil, SS Shinde, Sharad Pawar, Sudheendra Kulkarni, Medha Patkar
Malyali dhimmis - Shiv Shankar Menon, Prakash Karat
Gujrati dhimmi - Ambika Soni
Rajasthan dhimmi - Natwar singh
Assamese dhimmi - Tarun Gogoi, P.K Mahanta
Here's another article that should shows the anti-Hindu nature of certain media elements.
Reuters quotes a bunch of Mulsims about Hindu 'filth'
Hindu Pilgrams Pollute Himalayas
Last year we tried to clean a portion of the track, but our efforts can only be termed as a drop in the ocean," said Mohammed Ashraf, president of Jammu and Kashmir Mountaineering Club.
Environmentalists say Gangotri, the origin of the Ganges river which Hindus believe to be sacred, has become a shanty town filled with filth left by around 800,000 pilgrims a year.
Experts say trees are being chopped down for firewood and to make way for hotels and roads, and human interference is even speeding up the melting of glaciers.
"It is not just greenhouse gases which are leading to melting glaciers, but it is also increased human activity and development in the Himalayas," said Syed Iqbal Hasnain, a glaciologist from New Delhi's Centre for Policy Research.
First ever Hindu Prayer in US Senate Shouted down:
http://www.digg.com/politics/VIDEO_First_Ever_Hindu_Prayer_in_U_S_Senate_Shouted_Down
andamani dhimmi - D marwa (of the marwa tribe)
royal dhimmi - raja dhim singh
detective dhimmi - dhimchand
musical dhimmi- dhimesh reshamiya
filmi dhimmi - jai and dheeru
dhimmi dish - chicken dhandhoori
what do you call a dhimmi who is not fast - dheema
what does a dhimmi not have - dhimaag
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