dec 8th
to those of you who live in calif (i know some of you do live in calif, from google analytics), do you feel there is
a) a lot of racism there against indians/hindus?
b) that the racism is increasing?
just curious. do let me know what you think.
there have been some incidents recently that make me wonder. one is the futile struggle to rename 'persian drive' in sunnyvale as 'temple drive' or 'mandir drive'. the iranians and pakistanis got together and foiled this.
another was the parking trouble people found over deepavali at the sunnyvale temple. a lot of homeowners in the vicinity deliberately closed off their driveways to prevent temple-goers from parking anywhere nearby. lots of people got parking tickets. have you guys experienced this sort of behavior elsewhere in california? or is this all to do with the outsourcing backlash? or is it 9/11 related and xenophobia related?
also, have you experienced casual racism, taunts, etc in calif recently? people telling you to go home? or, like in new jersey, people calling you 'dotheads'? or telling you they didnt want to rent apartments to you?
the recent school book controversy showed some ugly behavior by witzel and company, and i am amazed the commission tolerated their racist retorts when they made their rebuttals. moreover, they actually appointed witzel to their committee even though he was extremely rude and unparliamentary. is this evidence of california racism? although i have to say that in the end the board did adopt a reasonably neutral stand. what do you think?
11 comments:
I lived Several Years in California. I found no trace of racism against Indians. I found them to be extremely tolerant . I have experienced only one racist taunt- from some kids (not more than 13-15 years). But i am abused by unknown people in India much more frequently - in government offices in India for example.
You mistake the drive against temple goers. The Hindus try to put their temples in the middle of large communities. It causes an invasion of privacy which is what most Californians are paranoid about. I know of another case where Californians petitioned their politicans against a temple- in Los Angeles. This too, was because of the privacy invasion.
I have noticed local papers attempting to cover Indian temples and culture- in a positive way.
Heck, I am back in India now. There was a large bank which suddenly came up next to my house. This caused me a great deal of discomfort. Why on earth should Californians be different, especially if people from a totally different culture bring up a huge temple?
i dont pretend they are 100% perfect. Had it been a large church, the reaction may not have been the same. But what i like to stress is that the Californians dont go out of their way to display their intolerance. If a large 100 million temple came up on the outskirts of the city, they probably wont complain.
I am the same anonymous who posted the previous post. You wont hear Californians protest in this fashion.
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"Construction of the temple (a satanic obscenity destined to be built right in the heart of the Orthodox Christian country of Russia) to Krishna offends our religious feelings and insults the thousand-year religious culture of Russia where the overwhelming majority of people, Christians and Muslims including, consider Krishna an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God\", said the Archbishops letter
Rajeev,
I have lived in Bay Area and Orange County for total 8 years and I haven't experienced any such thing. I am a Jain and we have a big temple close to Great Mall and another in Fullerton. We often have events that result in increased traffic but we take care about reserving sufficient parking space in nearby offices and run shuttles. I work in IT industry and my current employer has unusally high number of locals compared to Indians and my experience has only been good so far.
I have heard screams of "go back to your country" a couple of times from speeding cars.
The Sunnyvale temple issue is more than homeowners closing their driveways which is perfectly aceptable. It is about nearby commerical/official buildings closing their EMPTY parking lots during the weekend of Diwali. This is nothing but dog in the manger mentality.
There have been cases of protests against construction of temples in Southern California.
Then there was the issue of a protest against a sign on a freeway in LA area that indicated that 'Little India' was the next exit.
The latest issue is the one about State Board of Education supporting Aryan Migration Theory [as you pointed out, it is weasel-wording of Aryan Invasion. Or is it Witzel-wording? or Michael Weasel? :-) ]
BTW, to the person who criticizes Hindus for building temples in residential areas, do you apply the same standard to Christists in California? What about Christists in India?
Rajeev,
I have lived in the Silicon valley since 1989. This is place has one of the highest concentrations of people of Indian origin. Naturally in work and other places, one would find many Indians. I believe most of the silicon valley Indians are white collared and readily integrate with the locals, so there is a better understanding of and respect for Indians. However the stereotypes of curry, cow, caste does exist -- I won't blame the locals for these misunderstandings, the Indians themselves are not well informed or do not make any effort to correct this; maybe it is worry of being branded as a "Hindu fundamentalist". So inside the valley I have felt secure, as it is a microcosm where there is a fairly good ethnic mix (can't say the same in other places that I have lived in, in the rest of the US, especially the NE and South). Current trends are indicators of future challenges though. Recently I saw an article in the WSJ News that highlighted the flight of whites from Cupertino schools (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113236377590902105.html )-- the reasons were shocking. In addition to this the rejection of recommendations of Hindus to alter inaccuracies does not portend well for Indians in particular. I do believe that there will be trouble but not in the immediate future, especially since the caucasians are close to becoming a minority (if not already) in the valley.
Wrt to the Hindu temple's request for Mandir Drive, I saw the city hall proceedings, the reason for the rejection was some strong protest by the local (older) residents (there could have been outside lobbying), which was clear during the proceedings. If it had been a church yes the outcome could have been different, we don't know.
thanks for the opinions, folks! i appreciate your different points of view.
i personally have felt that people are less accepting after 9/11. before that, i used to travel to europe and feel the racism in britain and germany, and it was so much better when i flew into san francisco! it still is, but i think there's some fear of terrorism and resentment about the vanishing jobs.
when i first moved to california, i discovered quite by chance the little saiva siddhanta sabha temple on sacramento street in san francisco, as i loved exploring the city. it had a wonderful archaka, a white man named sadhaka diksha kandar, and i was impressed at how well and diligently he did all the archanas and so forth. later, they moved the temple to an old church in the east bay and i didnt like it so much. and last year i heard from the folks at hinduism today that sadhaka diksha kandar had died of cancer; fasting at the end as is customary for the saiva siddhanta sabha.
then the shiva-vishnu temple in livermore was out in the boonies, there was nothing near it except the windmills on top of the far-off ridges. but over time, the town has enveloped it, and i find it strange that there are all these houses just abutting the temple! that is a problem: zoning and allocating enough space for parking and making enough room for traffic. this is the reason temples are often voted down, but then they do manage to accommodate the parking and traffic problems for churches most of the time. i think hindus get such bad press, that is the reason.
One reason Persian drive was not renamed to Mandir drive is due to the stupid arguments presented by the Hindus. I watched the proceedings and one Hindu after another came and told that the road should be renamed to Mandir drive because "India was an ancient civilization". You too would have banged your head on the wall listening to the logic.
Finally the Mayor said he understood from many testimonies that India was an ancient country and if anyone had anything new to say, please come forward. Another gentleman comes and says "India is an ancient country.."
Franky I don't understand what is the big deal about changing the name. Reminds me of changing the name of Bombay to Mumbai and the new fad to rename Bangalore. What matters is what's happening inside the temple.
They all close the parking lot of companies around Great America Park during the July 4th fireworks. So I don't think it is discriminatory. The problem I think is unlike Church we don't have fixed timings for the temple and we go at different times and this may cause problems for residents if your driveway is blocked or you get constant traffic in residential streets.
Maybe the temple should take proactive step and reach out to the surrounding community and educate them.
Bharath
Someone wrote this below:
"BTW, to the person who criticizes Hindus for building temples in residential areas, do you apply the same standard to Christists in California? What about Christists in India?"
My main point is that Californians are paranoid about their privacy. If you go to EBay, you will see salespeople selling anti-spyware kit to old women. I have seen this myself. As to the question of whether i object, i have no objection if a Hindu temple comes next to my house in india as i am a Hindu. I will be a bit uncomfortable if a mosque comes out with loudspeakers blaring Azan at 4 in the morning. As for a Chruch, i wont mind if a small church comes up as i have noticed that generally Christians dont create a nuisance. if a large one comes up next to my house in India, i am likely to raise a voice.
Christists should not be allowed to practise their faith in India. But the USA, traditionally built on Christian faith (though they deny it now and claim that they are a secular country) should welcome more Hindu temples.
And I thought it only works one way everywhere.
You wrote: "a lot of homeowners in the vicinity deliberately closed off their driveways"
If you meant what you wrote, then it is quite alright. They have the right to do this, without getting questioned. If I (Indian, temple-going Hindu) lived near the temple I would do the same, just so that my driveway won't get blocked. Of course, intending no offense.
To answer the original question, yes, in my 22 years of living in California, I encountered racist taunts and comments about 5 times. The most recent one being 2 years ago. Though it had happened and I was hurt because of it, I consider those as flukes only.
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