Nizhal Yoddha, By 2020 there will be only 23,000 Parsis left in the country and who knows in lets say next 50 or so years they will be extinct. This ain't good for India. Arguably the most hard working, honest, enterprising community, the one who inspite being "Minority" in every sense of the word and the one community who never demanded any reservations for itself, will be absent from the roll-call of humanity.
I have great regards for Parsis and sadly they are diminishing in size. On the other hand, take a wild guess ! Which community's population is growing exponentially. !!
Point being, at least for country's economy we wanted the exact opposite.
yeah, gopal, tell that to the persians, egyptians, tibetans, mayans, aztecs and so on -- all of whose civilizations have been killed off.
i just love your pronouncements primed with absolute certainty, gopal. you'd do well to reflect that absolute certainty, like blind faith, is usually the result of ignorance, as in bertrand russell's statement:
"the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
if you were a little humbler, you might actually learn something. i am suggesting this for your own good, and so that you don't make an ass out of yourself too often.
My statement was not out of ignorance, or out of foolish/ignorant pride, but stems from deep thought - years spent ruminating over what is facing our dear motherland. How I arrived at this conclusion cannot be explained in a few words of a blog and neither will I attempt such foolishness. If we continue to converse, over a period I hope to explain it...but that's a big IF.
In the meantime, let me say this, if you think India is so weak and in the grip of death, you simply havn't understood what India is all about.
I have been through the phase of absolute and utter despair that you (and others) seem to be caught in (yes I am refering to the 3Ms and 3C syndrome and the profs at Divinity and the phallic Ganesha and Jeffery's Ramakrishna etc). But, I have come out stronger for it.
Today I have no fear about Indian Civilization or its survival, for I know its roots are FAR deeper than I ever thought possible.
Do you think the answer lies in fighting the "enemy" in their home turf? Sorry dear friend. The answer lies in fighting in our home ground. The solution lies in changing the rules of the game, and that's what Indians need to do.
A Chritian friend told me sometime ago "Most Indians in US are Christians". Just that they won't admit it. Look at their beliefs and what motivates them, it is just Western principles in practice. I just couldn't help but admire her insight.
We are so caught up in the "Western mode" of thinking (irony is we decry it) that we cannot perceive how muddle headed we've become. We cannot even think straight.
Indeed, "the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
An ass? May be I am, but a happy and contended ass, for I seriously doubt the veracity of your epitaph. It bothers me when people who should know better start writing epitaphs to Indian Civilization.
finally, gopal, a reasonable comment from you as opposed to all your previous, banal, pontifications.
i see you are afflicted by what might be termed, uncharitably, the 'dalai lama' syndrome: being 'happy and contended' while the barbarians destroy everything you hold dear. (i have the greatest respect for the dalai lama as the greatest spiritual leader in the world, but surely he is no strategist.)
and do ponder as to *why* you believe indian civilization will survive.
i imagine it is because it has survived so far. but it has survived in the past only because hindus and later sikhs were willing to stand up and fight for it. it is thanks to vijayanagar and shivaji and so many others. they fought for what they believed in. they fought continuously and never gave in.
how much fighting have you done? or are you content to sit back, give in and feel happy about your certainty? what have you personally done to ensure that indian civilization will endure?
see will durant on the mohammedan attacks on india: "It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within."
now there are even more barbarians all around.
i have a problem with all those who are smugly confident about civilizational survival. only the paranoid survive. the smug remind me of the priests at somnath who must have waited for some miracle rather than taking up arms and fighting; dying rather than giving in. or the monks at nalanda who allowed themselves to be massacred without a fight.
did the buddhists survive? no.
i go back to the gita: fight the righteous battle and the just war.
i am tired of feel-good proponents who sit on the sidelines and stroke their 'certainty' contentedly.
He's a man without an army, a leader without a kingdom.
He is above all a buddhist monk and spiritual leader. He can only fight in his way.
He cannot fight in the way a kshatriya will fight. His dharma is to lead in the spiritual way.
And he has stuck to the cause of Tibet and has so many admirers world over. I dont think his battle is lost though Tibet may never be free in your or my lifetime.
This Brahmin-Kshatriya mention of Daisy might be worth taking note of. If you really think Kshatriya's should fight the wars, then those who cannot also have a duty to support those who can, with their thoughts and with the pen, so to say. At present, the aggressors are using the Brahmin's thoughts to chain and enshackle the Kshatriya (through marxists, and through so called rational thinkers who choose to dissect everything that Hindus do); and are using a Kshatriya's energy to kill the academic progress of Brahmins (the reservations; the defamation of the reverred leaders of the Hindu tradition; and in other ways).
Perhaps, Brahmins need to declare that they would volunteer not to take up any top political positions, but leave those to people who can fight wars better. Brahmins would only advise..a la Samarth Ramdas, Shivaji's Guru. If that really happened, I am sure there will be a resurgence of Hindus.
You judge too soon, Rajeev, or perhaps you do not pay enough attention.
The previous was only my second post while the first was a one-liner, and you say "finally, gopal, a reasonable comment from you as opposed to all your previous, banal, pontifications." Ah!
I am contended and happy does NOT mean I am not fighting the "war". I am contended and happy because, I am fighting a war where I know victory is mine. I am not in the grip of fear/paranoia.
You blame me for being what that I am not. I do not know if you read my post. Instead of debating my point(s), you seem to have "presumed" my opinion and written a standard "reactionary" reply.
You might want to first understand what you are protecting. Then you might be able to protect it better.
Ref: your comment on BG; Daisies has said it well - "Paranoia is only a sign of how weak one's trust is in God ..." I second it.
Once again my friend, way to victory lies in bringing the "enemy" out of his home-turf. That's where all the fighting is going on right now - and you wonder why we are losing ground?
Re: the smug remind me of the priests at somnath who must have waited for some miracle rather than taking up arms and fighting; dying rather than giving in. or the monks at nalanda who allowed themselves to be massacred without a fight.
-- It is rather sad that you dont seem to understand at all that priests/monks were not meant or trained for fighting physically. That was the job of kshatriyas.
In an earlier post, you declared that Hinduism surivived because of caste system.
Now you are blaming the priests for not fighting, and heaping praise on the warriors, for saving Hinduism.
Are you saying all the poojas done by the priests were no of use, and only the warriors saved India and Hinduism ?
Then maybe you should give up the cause of Indian temples...this action would be only consistent with what you have stated here.
Ask all the pujaris at Guruvayoor to take up arms...tell that to all the mutts and temples...
I am rather upset by the comments posted here on priests vs monks...
Your comments amount to saying that pooja is of no use, it's just a nice hobby in good times...
I will attribute a great deal of India's "survivability" to all the saints, temples, poojas, priests, who created enough good vibrations to sustain us over the centuries. It could well be that because of this, the barbaric religions have not been able to wipe us out.
Remember that post from Sri Sri on "tsunami sparing temples" ? It could well be something to do with powerful vibes from temples, creating over years.
That doesnt mean I am downplaying the role of the warriors like Arjuna and Shivaji. That role too is important.
13 comments:
Clearly, India as a Civilization will never die.
Nizhal Yoddha,
By 2020 there will be only 23,000 Parsis left in the country and who knows in lets say next 50 or so years they will be extinct.
This ain't good for India. Arguably the most hard working, honest, enterprising community, the one who inspite being "Minority" in every sense of the word and the one community who never demanded any reservations for itself, will be absent from the roll-call of humanity.
I have great regards for Parsis and sadly they are diminishing in size. On the other hand, take a wild guess ! Which community's population is growing exponentially. !!
Point being, at least for country's economy we wanted the exact opposite.
yeah, gopal, tell that to the persians, egyptians, tibetans, mayans, aztecs and so on -- all of whose civilizations have been killed off.
i just love your pronouncements primed with absolute certainty, gopal. you'd do well to reflect that absolute certainty, like blind faith, is usually the result of ignorance, as in bertrand russell's statement:
"the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
if you were a little humbler, you might actually learn something. i am suggesting this for your own good, and so that you don't make an ass out of yourself too often.
My statement was not out of ignorance, or out of foolish/ignorant pride, but stems from deep thought - years spent ruminating over what is facing our dear motherland. How I arrived at this conclusion cannot be explained in a few words of a blog and neither will I attempt such foolishness. If we continue to converse, over a period I hope to explain it...but that's a big IF.
In the meantime, let me say this, if you think India is so weak and in the grip of death, you simply havn't understood what India is all about.
I have been through the phase of absolute and utter despair that you (and others) seem to be caught in (yes I am refering to the 3Ms and 3C syndrome and the profs at Divinity and the phallic Ganesha and Jeffery's Ramakrishna etc). But, I have come out stronger for it.
Today I have no fear about Indian Civilization or its survival, for I know its roots are FAR deeper than I ever thought possible.
Do you think the answer lies in fighting the "enemy" in their home turf? Sorry dear friend. The answer lies in fighting in our home ground. The solution lies in changing the rules of the game, and that's what Indians need to do.
A Chritian friend told me sometime ago "Most Indians in US are Christians". Just that they won't admit it. Look at their beliefs and what motivates them, it is just Western principles in practice. I just couldn't help but admire her insight.
We are so caught up in the "Western mode" of thinking (irony is we decry it) that we cannot perceive how muddle headed we've become. We cannot even think straight.
Indeed, "the trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."
An ass? May be I am, but a happy and contended ass, for I seriously doubt the veracity of your epitaph. It bothers me when people who should know better start writing epitaphs to Indian Civilization.
finally, gopal, a reasonable comment from you as opposed to all your previous, banal, pontifications.
i see you are afflicted by what might be termed, uncharitably, the 'dalai lama' syndrome: being 'happy and contended' while the barbarians destroy everything you hold dear. (i have the greatest respect for the dalai lama as the greatest spiritual leader in the world, but surely he is no strategist.)
and do ponder as to *why* you believe indian civilization will survive.
i imagine it is because it has survived so far. but it has survived in the past only because hindus and later sikhs were willing to stand up and fight for it. it is thanks to vijayanagar and shivaji and so many others. they fought for what they believed in. they fought continuously and never gave in.
how much fighting have you done? or are you content to sit back, give in and feel happy about your certainty? what have you personally done to ensure that indian civilization will endure?
see will durant on the mohammedan attacks on india: "It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within."
now there are even more barbarians all around.
i have a problem with all those who are smugly confident about civilizational survival. only the paranoid survive. the smug remind me of the priests at somnath who must have waited for some miracle rather than taking up arms and fighting; dying rather than giving in. or the monks at nalanda who allowed themselves to be massacred without a fight.
did the buddhists survive? no.
i go back to the gita: fight the righteous battle and the just war.
i am tired of feel-good proponents who sit on the sidelines and stroke their 'certainty' contentedly.
Dalai Lama is no comparison point.
He's a man without an army, a
leader without a kingdom.
He is above all a buddhist monk and
spiritual leader. He can only
fight in his way.
He cannot fight in the way a
kshatriya will fight. His dharma
is to lead in the spiritual way.
And he has stuck to the cause of
Tibet and has so many admirers
world over. I dont think his battle
is lost though Tibet may never be
free in your or my lifetime.
But who knows, it might happen.
on paranoia:
I think paranoia is very non-Gita.
The one who trusts in "Bhagawan"
or call it what you like, is not
and cannot be paranoid.
But that doesnt mean he abandons
action.
Mahavishnu reclining on the great
serpent, with a Sudarshan Chakra
in one hand, is the exact image
of what the Gita teaches -
Relaxed Alertness.
Reclining peacefully, yet ready
to strike with a deadly weapon
when needed. In full control of
mind and body.
Paranoia is only a sign of how
weak one's trust is in "God" or
whatever.
It drives people away.
This Brahmin-Kshatriya mention of Daisy might be worth taking note of. If you really think Kshatriya's should fight the wars, then those who cannot also have a duty to support those who can, with their thoughts and with the pen, so to say. At present, the aggressors are using the Brahmin's thoughts to chain and enshackle the Kshatriya (through marxists, and through so called rational thinkers who choose to dissect everything that Hindus do); and are using a Kshatriya's energy to kill the academic progress of Brahmins (the reservations; the defamation of the reverred leaders of the Hindu tradition; and in other ways).
Perhaps, Brahmins need to declare that they would volunteer not to take up any top political positions, but leave those to people who can fight wars better. Brahmins would only advise..a la Samarth Ramdas, Shivaji's Guru. If that really happened, I am sure there will be a resurgence of Hindus.
You judge too soon, Rajeev, or perhaps you do not pay enough attention.
The previous was only my second post while the first was a one-liner, and you say "finally, gopal, a reasonable comment from you as opposed to all your previous, banal, pontifications." Ah!
I am contended and happy does NOT mean I am not fighting the "war". I am contended and happy because, I am fighting a war where I know victory is mine. I am not in the grip of fear/paranoia.
You blame me for being what that I am not. I do not know if you read my post. Instead of debating my point(s), you seem to have "presumed" my opinion and written a standard "reactionary" reply.
You might want to first understand what you are protecting. Then you might be able to protect it better.
Ref: your comment on BG; Daisies has said it well - "Paranoia is only a sign of how weak one's trust is in God ..." I second it.
Once again my friend, way to victory lies in bringing the "enemy" out of his home-turf. That's where all the fighting is going on right now - and you wonder why we are losing ground?
Re:
the smug remind me of the priests at somnath who must have waited for some miracle rather than taking up arms and fighting; dying rather than giving in. or the monks at nalanda who allowed themselves to be massacred without a fight.
-- It is rather sad that you dont
seem to understand at all that
priests/monks were not meant or
trained for fighting physically.
That was the job of kshatriyas.
In an earlier post, you declared
that Hinduism surivived because of
caste system.
Now you are blaming the priests
for not fighting, and heaping
praise on the warriors, for saving
Hinduism.
Are you saying all the poojas done
by the priests were no of use, and
only the warriors saved India and
Hinduism ?
Then maybe you should give up the
cause of Indian temples...this
action would be only consistent
with what you have stated here.
Ask all the pujaris at Guruvayoor
to take up arms...tell that to all
the mutts and temples...
I am rather upset by the comments
posted here on priests vs monks...
Your comments amount to saying
that pooja is of no use, it's just
a nice hobby in good times...
I will attribute a great deal of
India's "survivability" to all the
saints, temples, poojas, priests,
who created enough good vibrations
to sustain us over the centuries.
It could well be that because of
this, the barbaric religions have
not been able to wipe us out.
Remember that post from Sri Sri
on "tsunami sparing temples" ? It
could well be something to do with
powerful vibes from temples,
creating over years.
That doesnt mean I am downplaying
the role of the warriors like
Arjuna and Shivaji. That role too
is important.
Very saddened by the comments here.
In the same breath I add meditation
along with poojas, in my previous
comment.
Buddhism - meditation;
Hinduism - poojas.
Daisies (and others).
(Ref to your post on my identity)
This is my first few days of interactions with you all. I have never been here before.
Hmm...now I see where Rajeev was coming from.
If people do not like what I say, I'll just go away. No offense intended to anyone.
Ooops! My bad. The poster was "Darkstorm" not Daisies. Rajeev, could you please correct that? Thanks, Gopal
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