Nizhal Yoddha, who is a Malayalee, ought not have highlighted the Vamana avataram. People in Keralam still worship Mahabali: RIGHTLY! Actually, this illustrates the fallacy of drawing moral lessons from epics as different from scriptures.
not quite, witan. kerala people do not *worship* mahabali, we are just fond of him as a good king. and incidentally, we know good kings -- when others were laboring under the british yoke, travancore was ruled by exemplary kings: considerate, frugal, imbued with foresight.
so i don't know what you mean by "RIGHTLY". it is also kerala hindus' prerogative to worship anybody they feel like; and in fact we do worship vamana as an avatara of vishnu.
there are many moral lessons in the epics. one is that the gods might have information not available to the mortal man, and that they might upon that in ways that might befuddle mortals.
on the other hand, the entire vamana story is a metaphor for the buddhists of kerala (thus 'asuras') being defeated by brahmins. being a descendant of said asuras, i am not sure i have a good enough rationale to rant against something that happened some 1200 years ago as part of the Counter-Reformation in hinduism, following up on the Reformation circa 2500 years ago that resulted in the creation of buddhism and jainism. i am pretty sure you don't have anything concrete either, just some conjectures.
“Vamana is ... the younger brother of Indra.” “The Bhagavata Purana describes that Vishnu descended as the Vamana avatar to restore the authority of Indra over the heavens, as it had been taken by Mahabali, a benevolent Asura King. Bali was the grandson of Prahlada, the son of Hiranyakshipu. ... Just before King Mahavali was pushed out of this earth, he was given permission by Vamana to visit his people once a year. The Onam festival is a celebration of welcoming Mahabali home to his lost kingdom. During this festival, beautiful floral decorations are made in every house and boat races are held throughout Kerala. A twenty-one-course feast is the most important part of the Onam festival.” [wikipedia] The decorations and celebrations are to make Mahabali think that the people are happy and prosperous. The people did not want their erstwhile king to feel sad.
I repeat, “Mahabali, a benevolent Asura King”. IOW, the Vamana ousted Mahabali for no other reason than as a personal favour to Indra, — blatant Nepotism. What moral lesson can one draw from this?
i repeat, you were wrong, we do not *worship* mahabali, but we respect him as a great king. thank you for keenly supporting my statement with your wikipedia quote.
this idea of mahabali as a victim of some conspiracy is a vestige of 'dravidian' tamil garbage, which i reject in its entirety. except for a few communists, so do most kerala people. and, i repeat, as a descendant of the so-called asuras, i have no problem with the reality: buddhists were overthrown by hindus in that episode. buddhism had, by that time, degenerated to being merely an atheist version of hinduism (much like communism is today an atheist version of christism). it had lost its intellectual and emotional charm due to a) sankara's counter-attack and b) the alwars/nayanmars of tamil country with their ecstatic worship of personal gods.
it is a matter of great sadness that tamil culture, which was of such a high caliber 1200 years ago, has degenerated into this vile 'dravidian' crap today. thank you, padre caldwell (the inventor of 'dravidianism') and the dmk.
i love witan's tamil-imperialist urge to tell me what to think. we malayalis are obviously vassals to the great tamil nation.
i don't have to read the wikipedia to understand what onam is: i *live* it. it is my festival. just as i don't presume to tell tamils what their jallikettu or pongal is, it would be best that you tamils don't tell me what onam is.
there is a malayalam phrase that describes this sort of behavior: "kanda nee avide nilkoo, ketta jnan parayatte" meaning, "you who saw the incident keep quiet, let me, who heard about it from someone, pontificate about the incident".
5 comments:
Nizhal Yoddha, who is a Malayalee, ought not have highlighted the Vamana avataram. People in Keralam still worship Mahabali: RIGHTLY!
Actually, this illustrates the fallacy of drawing moral lessons from epics as different from scriptures.
not quite, witan. kerala people do not *worship* mahabali, we are just fond of him as a good king. and incidentally, we know good kings -- when others were laboring under the british yoke, travancore was ruled by exemplary kings: considerate, frugal, imbued with foresight.
so i don't know what you mean by "RIGHTLY". it is also kerala hindus' prerogative to worship anybody they feel like; and in fact we do worship vamana as an avatara of vishnu.
there are many moral lessons in the epics. one is that the gods might have information not available to the mortal man, and that they might upon that in ways that might befuddle mortals.
on the other hand, the entire vamana story is a metaphor for the buddhists of kerala (thus 'asuras') being defeated by brahmins. being a descendant of said asuras, i am not sure i have a good enough rationale to rant against something that happened some 1200 years ago as part of the Counter-Reformation in hinduism, following up on the Reformation circa 2500 years ago that resulted in the creation of buddhism and jainism. i am pretty sure you don't have anything concrete either, just some conjectures.
“Vamana is ... the younger brother of Indra.”
“The Bhagavata Purana describes that Vishnu descended as the Vamana avatar to restore the authority of Indra over the heavens, as it had been taken by Mahabali, a benevolent Asura King. Bali was the grandson of Prahlada, the son of Hiranyakshipu. ... Just before King Mahavali was pushed out of this earth, he was given permission by Vamana to visit his people once a year. The Onam festival is a celebration of welcoming Mahabali home to his lost kingdom. During this festival, beautiful floral decorations are made in every house and boat races are held throughout Kerala. A twenty-one-course feast is the most important part of the Onam festival.” [wikipedia]
The decorations and celebrations are to make Mahabali think that the people are happy and prosperous. The people did not want their erstwhile king to feel sad.
I repeat, “Mahabali, a benevolent Asura King”. IOW, the Vamana ousted Mahabali for no other reason than as a personal favour to Indra, — blatant Nepotism. What moral lesson can one draw from this?
i repeat, you were wrong, we do not *worship* mahabali, but we respect him as a great king. thank you for keenly supporting my statement with your wikipedia quote.
this idea of mahabali as a victim of some conspiracy is a vestige of 'dravidian' tamil garbage, which i reject in its entirety. except for a few communists, so do most kerala people. and, i repeat, as a descendant of the so-called asuras, i have no problem with the reality: buddhists were overthrown by hindus in that episode. buddhism had, by that time, degenerated to being merely an atheist version of hinduism (much like communism is today an atheist version of christism). it had lost its intellectual and emotional charm due to a) sankara's counter-attack and b) the alwars/nayanmars of tamil country with their ecstatic worship of personal gods.
it is a matter of great sadness that tamil culture, which was of such a high caliber 1200 years ago, has degenerated into this vile 'dravidian' crap today. thank you, padre caldwell (the inventor of 'dravidianism') and the dmk.
i love witan's tamil-imperialist urge to tell me what to think. we malayalis are obviously vassals to the great tamil nation.
i don't have to read the wikipedia to understand what onam is: i *live* it. it is my festival. just as i don't presume to tell tamils what their jallikettu or pongal is, it would be best that you tamils don't tell me what onam is.
there is a malayalam phrase that describes this sort of behavior: "kanda nee avide nilkoo, ketta jnan parayatte" meaning, "you who saw the incident keep quiet, let me, who heard about it from someone, pontificate about the incident".
presumptuous, i believe the word is.
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