Hope u ve gone through the comments at Rediff on this column.
I am really surprised to see those comments with "Hinduism - subjugation, suppression, Brahminism blah blah blah". There are so many Brain Dead still alive."
The main problem with most of these S(i)ecular Hindus is that they dont know what is Hinduism. They confuse social evils with religious practises.
Dont you think all these Dhimmies deserve the govt at the center? Yes, they deserve...they deserver an Arjun Sings, Natwars, Mani Sucker Iyers and Sonias...they well deserver all of them.
Caste based reservation have always been used to devide the hindus, to shut up the structures of traditional defense. They have been toying with the idea, various combination since long.
The rediff comments shows this, their attack has been pretty much fixed. It is like Bush's attack on Saddam has nothing to do with some controll over Iraq, rather about democracy and WMD. It is simillar to left's attack on Bush, as if it is anti-war ( These morons would support maoist and islamic wars).
Basically the attack is perceived leadership, which is not existing any more even for its own defense. When the symbolic leadership is removed from people's mind, the situation would be like Bush implementing democracy in Iraq, Chinese Maoists liberating Tibet etc.. somebody would be liberating these dhimmies.
surya, i believe rediff is filtering out pro-Hindu comments. My comment was not published. also even if the names sound hindu, the people who posted those comments may not be hindus.
I have seen it so many times....rediff dooes not publish many comments. Even the secular Indian express is better than that. The letters to editor section was the first target of marxists when they took over the media ( This according to a former editor). Wonder of there is a marxist, or a sepoy type at rediff, who has decided to impose his own morality.
Since every most politicians in India are selfish, greedy and shortsighted, One way to prevent such ridiculous bills like the 50% reservation, would be for Big companies (Who would get directly hit by the reservations) to bribe the greedy politicians to vote against it. After all money makes them do all evils, why not use it to do some good for the country? Reservation is a typical example of fighting an evil with an evil. Two wrongs would never make it right. Thanks KP
Reading this article, the immediate opinion I formed is that you have a much distorted understanding of "Who Hindus are?" The people-group Hindus are not defined by a religion whereas Muslims/Christians are. Thus the comparison of the affairs of Hindus with another set of Muslim/Christian people is like comparing Apples with Oranges.
Hindus/Hindi/Hindustani are native of the land called India/Hindostan/Bharat. Yes, the very ancestors followed the Vedic teachings and idol-worship and many are still following now. But this does not mean those who gave up this practice are no longer Hindus.
Muslims / Christians from India are very much Hindustani (or Hindu or Hindi or Indian) by virtue of their heritage and ancestry from this country. This article is yet another attempt in portraying them as aliens of this country. Thus a Muslim/Christian can also be from Ezhavas or Nairs by Caste. But fortunately for most Muslims/Christians of this country, their adoption of a religion have eventually moved them away from the Caste-system, which has traditionally (and even in 21st century) has dominated the Indian societies.
Thus for Muslims/Christians they have moved away from this Caste-based identification (not 100%). And hence within them there is no such area of discrimination. Whereas a large majority, and for sake of identification - idol worshippers, are still identifying & discriminating themselves based on Castes & Race.
You further point that 92% committed suicides are Hindus (read non-muslim/non-christians) but so simply ignore the fact that nearly 90% of the population is of this group. So it’s very logical that most of the stuffs (deaths, aids-infection, illiteracy, etc) will be proportionate to their population. If you consider the Natural deaths of the Non-Muslims/Non-Christians of this country that would be 90% too. So will you now blame the God for injustice?
Your point that there should be reservation in ‘minority'-controlled institutions is like demanding a space on neighbor’s lawn. Nothing stops any Hindu caste, whether Ezhavas or Nairs in owning their own institutions. In fact there are many, and Muslims/Christians don’t get reservation on them. It’s the Muslims/Christians who are at disadvantage (in the case you highlighted) of getting no reservations on Government institutions and have to shell huge sum to get a seat at institutions supposedly theirs. In any case, if one deems fit demanding space on neighbor’s lawn, then at least it should first begin by setting example themselves.
In every issue (of the communities you consider as the Hindus) you see appeasement of the other minority communities. For the sake of rationality, can you explain what an issue between two castes got to do with the pandering of Muslim vote-bank.
Reading this article, the immediate opinion I formed is that you have a much distorted understanding of "Who Hindus are?"
Further The people-group Hindus are not defined by a religion whereas Muslims/Christians are.
Subhan, The above is a distorted view, initially propagated by the missionaries and picked up by what is being called secular people. What the secularists rigidly adhere to is theorizing the hindus in terms of race, thus bluntly saying in their face is that they are ready for conversion - atleast to marxism, secularism etc.
No people defined by religion, still people are. What the brits did is to say the islam is one people, so as christists, but hindus are a bunch of fighting groups. The more they hold power through the JNUs and their masters elsewhere, the more these theories gets prominence, gulliable hindus are forced to believe these.
A book, a prophet was required for being governed by religion. Two books means it is not a religion. It is sad that people still stick to these ideas.
Thanks Rajeev for cutting through the mess, it must have amazing effort. FYI rediff comments are selected comments.
In any case, if one deems fit demanding space on neighbor’s lawn, then at least it should first begin by setting example themselves. Subhan thinks some one is demanding space in labour's lawn, what idiots they must be! These idiots are one - The 'hindu'-castes. That is all idiots, all that need to be cleansed up to make land of pure are hindus, and they are one. But according to our brainwashed friend subham, the Jehadis, power brokers could all be one by a 'religion' ! So nice ! this is what the congress and marxists are doing by playing around with thousands of crores and fighting all around. It works because there are enough sepoys around to get recruited into world of so called secular theories, and payment is good too.
You say "Muslims / Christians from India are very much Hindustani (or Hindu or Hindi or Indian) by virtue of their heritage and ancestry from this country. "
Then to try and prove ur point you say something contradictory " Your point that there should be reservation in ‘minority'-controlled institutions is like demanding a space on neighbor’s lawn. "
And your entire argument is based on the above statement @ neighbors lawn.
If Indian Muslims & Christians are Hindustani then where is the question of 'neighbors lawn' ??
Secondly, you are not a true Hindustani...if you were you would know that Hindus are not 'idol-worshippers'...they dont worship the idol...idols are a yantra to help harness & focus the mind to pray to God. Your terminology stinks of someone educated & still in the 'convent -look down on native culture- school' mode.
Next you say "If you consider the Natural deaths of the Non-Muslims/Non-Christians of this country that would be 90% too. So will you now blame the God for injustice?" Thats ridiculous ! Suicide or murder is NOT the same as a natural death. Just like your loosing 1000 dollars is NOT the same as someone stealing it.
Also, I don't think we should take offence at him calling Hindus Idol-Worshippers.
It is very similar to our ancestors calling the marauding muslim hordes "Maleechas" when they started polluting our landscape.
The difference between Subhan Ahsan (along with the majority of Muslims) and the Hindus is that the Hindus have grown up and don't call them Maleechas anymore but they are still at the same "Marauding Muslim Horde" level (who still think of Hindus as Idol-worshippers).
Not their fault, I don't think their "BOOK" leaves any scope for them to evolve anyway.
just a technical addition to indusaquarius comment about the mlecha
I don't think the word was specifically invented for muslims, or even, as the common belief is , for "foreigners". it may have taken that meaning for a limited space-time later on
In fact Dr Kalyanaraman in his recent writings has argued that Mlecha was the language spoken by the metal workers who are also the same people behind the indus inscriptions
he says that the mention of mlecha as a language in the jadugriha parva of the Mahabharata "vidureNokto mlechchha vAchAsi pANDava" holds a key to unfolding some mystery
Where the hell are all these anti-Hindu commenters on rediff coming from? They sound like typical FOSAesque marxists. Is there some sort of massive troll operation going on in rediff or is this the general opinion of the people? This worries me, people seem to be buying into all this crap.
Fosa, as well as some of their jihadi brothers(mulla+missionary+marxists) are behind this rediff scam. or maybe they r targeting specifically bharateeya intellectuals like rajeev in rediff. in ibnlive.com, similar topics had almost all responses against divisive reservation and aparthied.Also, if rediff is preventing pro-hindu posts, then they too support the missionary aparthied?
What is the significance of the point that 92 per cent of all those committing suicide in Kerala are Hindus. And Kerala has the highest suicide rate in India.
Can you explain as to how this suits the reservation
I support reservations but here are my thoughts about it... 1)Restrict it as per family size, existing earning potential and actual income. 2)Restrict it as per past reservations in the family. 3)To implement the above a very good monitoring system is required. If we have the above three in place I think we can truely help the backward communities in our country. I have seen a family of size 12 with 11 members either a gazetted officer or a professional. (IRS, IPS,Doctors, Engineers and Bank Managers) All thanks to reservations. Is this what the government wants to do? Rajeev ....your articles are always highly informative. Please cmment on my comment
[i]Where the hell are all these anti-Hindu commenters on rediff coming from? They sound like typical FOSAesque marxists. Is there some sort of massive troll operation going on in rediff or is this the general opinion of the people? [/i]
Hi someone. these marxists are well organised and they even have online communities to co-ordinate their attacks. check out the community "communist cell, orkut" on orkut.com. if u don't have a account there give me ur email id. i will mail u the invite :)
>>> Muslims / Christians from India are very much Hindustani (or Hindu or Hindi or Indian) by virtue of their heritage and ancestry from this country. This article is yet another attempt in portraying them as aliens of this country.
When they want reservations, they claim they are not aliens. They try to redefine Hinduism as "natives of India", and claim to be Hindus. haha.. nice ploy.
re. from article: "Ironically, Nairs got Travancore government jobs a century ago only after an agitation demanding equal rights, because most of those jobs had previously been given to Tamil Brahmins!"
-------- Rajeev, when tamil brahmins migrated to kerala many years back, travancore was one of the places they went to.
the raja of travancore was their patron, he gave them food and shelter. taking care of brahmins was considered important in those days, becoz they were the ones that carried the vedic and spiritual knowledge and could do pujas and homas. in the varna system, the "head" is more important than hands, body, feet. though all are necessary.
in the same spirit, i guess later on, they were given priority for jobs.
you have a tendency to show great respect for vedic knowledge, spirituality, temples, tradition etc, and have even gone to the extent of insisting that women should not wear churidars in temples, they should wear only sarees, because YOU find churidar unaesthetic). you have also quoted in some old rediff article, what sri krishna says about varnas.
but the patronage extended by the older hindu society to brahmins seems to upset you.
you cant talk out of both sides of the mouth.
even in the corporate world, the "head" is more important than the "body", "hands" "legs". so the CEO is given HIGH priorty and salary, and worker ants are paid differently.
this is a NATURAL model, which even the Gita refers to. this is how nature organizes.
but your articles seem to extol the old on one hand, and on the other hand, you are upset that brahmins were given greater importance than others.
contd: the CEO is given HIGH priorty and salary, and worker ants are paid differently, because CEO is more irreplacable and indispensable to the group.
This is for Daisies.... Reservations is about equal oppurtunities not about intelligence or power. It is meant to give equal oppurtunities to all the people on a weightage basis. the weightage is based on how disadvantaged you and your ancestors are against certain communities like brahmins. Also in the same analogy you cited markets thrive in competition. So reservations is a tool to bring more and more people into the field to make the so called elite( brahmins and in general the educated/forward castes) more competitive. It is actually bringing it closer to your natural model....unless you think brahmins are martians and so not natural!!
what you are talking of is the new social order, based on open market and the validity of reservations in this day.
what i am talking of is how rajeev criticizes actions taken in the older social order, and the older society, at the same time he praises vedic heritage etc etc.
that old society had its own basis of economics. varna system operated on whole society as a group.
overnight, was it reasonable to expect that system to change ?
another analogy might be queens & kings continuing in some countries. not an exact analogy, but similar.
there is queen in england, kings in some other countries even, with new political systems.
because the old cannot be wiped out overnight.
the queen of england to me seems like she belongs to dinsosaur age and her country spends so much on her and her descendants upkeep.
for her country, she means something, though for us, she may mean nothing at all.
but old systems cannot and need not be thrown out overnight. they can only be phased out over time.
re: "Also in the same analogy you cited markets thrive in competition".
--- that is NOT what I cited! you missed my point there too. i think you were rushing to find meanings that support your own views :-)
I was saying, that in a set-up of interdependent people, such as a bee-hive, or a company, or the old indian society, there are the more important people and the less important, though all are needed. the more important persons get more patronage. gita refers to such a model.
I was not saying ANYTHING about markets thriving on competition. Neither does Gita refer to competition and free market systems.
Please dont confuse the two. Gita is too important a book to misquote.
Diasies "Also in the same analogy you cited markets thrive in competition". I actually meant (notice the comma) "Also in the same analogy you cited, markets thrive in competition". I was just trying to say that we need more and better people (CEO, engineer...whatever) who can catch up with the progress in our society. So give oppurtunities to all. Initially it may look lopsided but I think we will end up more egilaritarian than we are now.Please see one of my previous comments and exchange your opinions. I speak like this inspite of my experiences with very bad ceos and managers thanks to reservations. I am not bothered about Gita or the relevance of caste system once upon a time. I clearly see it left a highly segregated groups of people with some groups lagging behind in all things basic and humane. I think reservations can be used to make our society more egilaritarian and skillfull to embrace the progress.
you already stated your viewpoints somewhere and had your say. if you DONT care about Gita, why were you mixing up your comments with mine, when my post wasnt addressed to you, nor was my post anything at all about reservations.
i was writing with specific reference to Rajeev's comments. he cares a lot about Gita.
you dont have to reply to my post to convince me/others of your views on reservations. dont get mixed up in a dialogue that has nothing to do with YOUR views on reservations.
it will only confuse others who are following the thread here.
You are mixing things here. Be specific. I dont understand how reservations create more equality and more opportunities. Reservations as they exist today are out and out caste based. I dont understand how these caste based reservations reduce the divide.
Reservations in any form are no way promote equality. Keep everyting open to anyone. Schools, colleges, universities et all should give admission to the worthy whether they can pay the fee or not. Havent you heard of the story of NR Narayana Murthy ( though I dont like him) who couldnt join an IIT becasue his father was poor. Such people need to be given admission not those who couldnt even count the fingers on a hand.
Firstly...let me clear the mixup....I thought Rajeev's main topic is about reservations and most of the comments too are about reservations. So the mix up is probabaly not in my comments. And lastly I will try to be more specific to Surya's comments on my thoughts.Before I say anything I believe we should not take one person and use it as an example to prove something. I mean Narayana Murthy's case is irrelevant in this discussion. Now, the only basis for reservations is, at one point of time our leaders recognized that there are various groups of people who are backward and disadvantaged. The main reason for this state of society is caste based social and economic structure that was prevalant in our society long long ago.Education was not for all. Money handling was not for all. Fighting was not for all. People were divided by their profession. The worst thing that happened because of this was "untouchabilty". Add to that unaccessabilty to temples. And the tribal societies that were backward not because of these systems but because of their natural distance to the main stream. How do you bring all these groups into one group? Let us call this group "ONE". ONE represents democracy. ONE represents modern skill set and views such as education,equality. Anybody can become any professional. Any body can visit temples. Again how do we make this ONE. First by recognizing that intellect and adaptabilty are not because of caste but because of the nature of human being. Second by recognizing that some groups need to be addressed specially because they were deprived and oppressed by other groups. It means give them more weightage now. This way we are mixing these groups in different proportions hoping that the end result will be ONE with more talented and enlightened human beings. The current generations are seeing the transition not the end result. May be after 50 years we can see the end result. This transition can be faster if we dont play dirty politics and improve the implementation policies.
Now, the only basis for reservations is, at one point of time our leaders recognized that there are various groups To say it just at heppened as cooly 'at one pint of time' by our established leaders doesn't give the complete picture. There have been serious talk of reservations which our leaders had opposed. As one reads the final settlement was for a 10 years reservation for SC/STs alone.
How do you bring all these groups into one group?
When one familly has meant smaller and smaller people with less in sharing, is it really about no bars hold group ? Is something missing ?
Explore the otherway around, has it been pre-decided by some idiot about how to define a group as 'ONE'. Has there been little bit of pison for hindus in this definition ?
All secularists and their propaganda channels know this, but it is useless for their activity. If you check the state of temples, and temple culture around the country, there has been no value attached by the establishment to the temples. Such a thing without value couldn't have been as decissive.
Exploring the otherway around.....hindus just happen to be in the majority of the groups.I think it is a social problem. I am sure it is there in China and Africa too. I mean the division of society into groups. We all know it helped the society to divide into groups of caste which were defined by a profession or a role. It got matured and helped the societies to grow stronger and richer. The current society demands more efficient structuring of people. I see it like this 0)group to "MANY" to manage the evolution (past) 1)regroup to "ONE" and evolve further (current) 2)Group to "MANY" to manage the evolution (future)3)May be again regroup to "ONE" and evolve further(future).....so it is not about hindus or secularists....I think these changes will happen as the society struggles to survive and evolve. The opposition and the dirty politics will be there in all the phases ( ONE and MANY).
Appreciate your candid answer. Majority like you are minorities in this setup. The post above on definitions is true, and thats how these politicians are working. Arjun Singh is concerned about obeying somebody to become a cbt minister, forget about his realization of a need and such audacious change.
There will never be one people, for example both of us will most likely remain as two, that happens even within a familly. Still one could say people already are one. So there are a lot that still could make one, there are one which means all are nuts :) But all these appear different issues that has value in saner times.
In a ONE we both will remain two different people but we both got same kinda oppurtunities given by the society. I think ONE is required if a society needs more inventions, discoveries and innovations in any field. (sports, science, agriculture etc). So in an ideal ONE scenario we two are more likely to play this role in our own fields. That way we are ONE. In a MANY we both will remain two different people and we are expected to take up certain roles desired by the society. I think MANY is required if a society needs more management, administration and sustainabilty in any field. (sports, science, agriculture etc). So in an ideal MANY scenario we two are more likely to play this role in our own fields. ONE and MANY are two extemes we will never reach but sometimes we are neaer to ONE and sometimes we are nearer to MANY.Some interesting examples: Take a well established business family...The children are expected to be in the business and take care of the business. One child becomes marketing incharge, another becomes technical incharge....and they manage the business. The roles are almost predetermined inspite of the child's education or no education. Now take a middle class indian family. The family head decides and strives to give equal oppurtunities to the children. Better schooling. Better tution. etc. They are very likely to end up as professionals in their own field. They decide their roles after availing the oppurtunity. They are more lilely to become innovators in their fields....and they create the business or support the creation of business.
re. Mobius-strip's comment: "The main reason for this state of society is caste based social and economic structure that was prevalant in our society long long ago.Education was not for all. Money handling was not for all. Fighting was not for all. People were divided by their profession."
---Well, this is not the whole truth. Long long long ago, sociey was meaningfully divided according to some old wisdom. social evils eventually came in due to blind belief.
Anyway, the Mughals and British reduced the whole of India to misery and poverty and they levelled the playing field. in a miserable way.
So it didnt matter after that what caste you were. Poverty hit the majority of people. Only some people had a lot of money.
So it is meaningless to talk of upper-caste having advantages over lower.
For professional colleges today, the only reservations that are meaningful are MERIT + MEANS based.
Caste-based reservations for professional colleges/jobs, are not fair. There are poor in every caste.
For SC/ST's special help should be given at the schooling level. Maybe 100% monetary help.
I come from an "upper-caste" family whose in whose past history there was only dire dire poverty, struggle and toil. My community does not ask for reservations.
So sorry guys, no cribbing that only the SC/ST/OBC have faced poverty and other castes had all fair-weather and sunshine. ALL castes have faced poverty, thanks to the Mughal invaders and the lovely British.
The real problem is the urban UC is not able to understand the difficulties faced by BCs in rural India as well as cities. Guys there is so much hidden and subconscious bias practised by upper class colleagues and bosses you have no idea about. The protesting UC students in cities haven’t really seen the real picture of Indian society. They are too focused on their own future, security and have little compassion and understanding of the sufferings of BCs. True that there are going to be few culprits who will misuse quotas but at the same time there will be a genuine benefit going towards much larger portion of deserving BCs. Taunting, victimisation, back-stabbing and leg-pulling of BCs is very common. I suggest the UC guys, go to an interview in a private company where the usually all the members of interview board are from UC. Portray yourself as a BC with good marks. See if you get selected or not. Do this couple of times. The experiences and treatments you are given will change your attitude towards reservation forever and will help you understand why reservation really exists. The quota system atleast provides an helping hand in such situations. The ‘Merit’ and ‘Fair-ground’ based arguments are missing the central point. A BC student if scores even 65% marks against all odds (a lack of education in family and hence lack of any guidance from elders, the absence of atmosphere favourable to higher education in family, leg-pulling by UC bosses and colleagues) then that BC candidate is as good as or better than an UC candidate who has scored 90% with all the favourable conditions and guidance.
Think why reservation really exist. If upper-caste people stop practising casteism, there won’t need for reservation. The real problem is not reservation the real real problem is the casteism and casteist mindset of many upper caste people. If politicians are evil then selfish upper caste group is a bigger evil indeed. Atleast the selfish politicians will facilitate some benefit to deserving needy backward caste candidates somewhere.
appreciate your post. thanks for writing about things we may not know about.
reg: "The ‘Merit’ and ‘Fair-ground’ based arguments are missing the central point. A BC student if scores even 65% marks against all odds... then that BC candidate is as good as or better than an UC candidate who has scored 90% with all the favourable conditions and guidance."
-- brings to mind how a race is conducted with handicaps when children of different ages are in the group --- you put the tiniest kid a few yards in front, so he has to run less.
so, wouldn't it make sense to have a multiplication factor for OBC marks, to make them all apples to apples comparison ?
unconditional reservation does not seem wise. what do you think ?
Get your facts straight before you spout your nonsense again. Hindus comprise just over 55% of total Kerala population, not 90% as you lie. Check here for proof http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Summary%20Hindus.pdf
>And hence within them there is no such area of discrimination. Whereas a large majority, and for sake of identification - idol worshippers, are still identifying & discriminating themselves based on Castes & Race. >
Subhan,
This is how Saudis treat Pakis. http://in.news.yahoo.com/060514/43/648i7.html
Yeah sure there is no discrimination in islam. This statement is as true as Islam is a peaceful religion.
It is not a one-off case. We knew abt NRN becasue he became famous afterwards. What about others who faced the same problem and sucked into oblivion.
There is this gal from Andhra Pradesh who secured All India 24th Rank in this year's IIT-JEE. He mother is a coolie. They are much much below poverty level. Now, this gal needs to pay around 30K per annum to study in IIT.
Dont you think she needs to be given admission irrespective of whether she pays the fee or not? Or atleast she deserves help from govt?
There are many such cases among all the castes. It is only that we know very little about them.
lmj Think why reservation really exist. If upper-caste people stop practising casteism, there won’t need for reservation. The real problem is not reservation the real real problem is the casteism and casteist mindset of many upper caste people.
Really... Mahatmas lile Lalu, Karunanidhi, Sonia , Arjun Singh have no other issue than becoming equal to all and sundry ! So also all these power brokers in academics and media ? Basically it exists to give these arjun SInghs a justification for being a cbt minister, this naught could do nothing more as HRD than obeying some masters.The real reason for reservation is something else....
Comments are more interesting than the article! I like to see what the bloggers who are opposing reservations think about private engineering and medical colleges. If I can't get a seat on merit I can pay donation and become a professional!!What if I am poor? Ofcourse I can't. Isn't this a division, like reservations!!!? There is a common exam out there that judges my aptitude to become an engineer or a doctor. And if I fail to meet certain merit or marks I have an option to pay money and bypass that judgement.
Subhan , first of all you should understand that you're a converted hindu , probably your ancestrors were forcefully converted during moplah terrorism in malbar areas. Before you define hinduism , you should be aware of this fact.Now you say there's no caste system in Islam and X-ianity. what a lie, Mr? Go to any kerala church and you'll see harijan converts are buried in a separate cemetries. Can you marry the daughter of high caste muslims like Kunjali or Thangal or terrorist E Ahmed? are you so sure there isnt any casteism in your kerala islam ?
What is the major contribution of kerala muslims ? - ask anyone - answr is simple - TERRORISM with support from ISI and CPM! How many hindus are slaughtered daily and with the help of your evil ministers, you support the terrorists. Hindus are pushed to suicide by the islamic-christian mafia which control the economy in a state like Kerala. Just see the rise of sandalwood mafia, land mafia (conversion of forests to 'cross' cultivation), spirit mafia, loan sharks. And 'minority' controlled govts' never help hindus in kerala. This is a fact, brother.
Almost 95% of institutions in kerala is under 'minority management', you still do not want to provide reservation to the poor. This shows your real racism just like the mullahs and mahdanis in your religion. Look at the staff recruitments in minority aided schools/colleges in kerala. Real aparthied and discrimination for poor hindus. And you say , just like creepy missionaries, that you are dis-advantaged , even after trying to ethnically cleanse the innocent hindus in Norther kerala. But please dont ever think we'll be tolerant always.
44 comments:
Rajeev,
Hope u ve gone through the comments at Rediff on this column.
I am really surprised to see those comments with "Hinduism - subjugation, suppression, Brahminism blah blah blah". There are so many Brain Dead still alive."
The main problem with most of these S(i)ecular Hindus is that they dont know what is Hinduism. They confuse social evils with religious practises.
Dont you think all these Dhimmies deserve the govt at the center? Yes, they deserve...they deserver an Arjun Sings, Natwars, Mani Sucker Iyers and Sonias...they well deserver all of them.
Caste based reservation have always been used to devide the hindus, to shut up the structures of traditional defense. They have been toying with the idea, various combination since long.
The rediff comments shows this, their attack has been pretty much fixed. It is like Bush's attack on Saddam has nothing to do with some controll over Iraq, rather about democracy and WMD. It is simillar to left's attack on Bush, as if it is anti-war ( These morons would support maoist and islamic wars).
Basically the attack is perceived leadership, which is not existing any more even for its own defense. When the symbolic leadership is removed from people's mind, the situation would be like Bush implementing democracy in Iraq, Chinese Maoists liberating Tibet etc.. somebody would be liberating these dhimmies.
surya, i believe rediff is filtering out pro-Hindu comments. My comment was not published.
also even if the names sound hindu, the people who posted those comments may not be hindus.
I have seen it so many times....rediff dooes not publish many comments. Even the secular Indian express is better than that. The letters to editor section was the first target of marxists when they took over the media ( This according to a former editor). Wonder of there is a marxist, or a sepoy type at rediff, who has decided to impose his own morality.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/may/10rajeev.htm
This is the link to the second article, the link from part-1 is incorrect.
Since every most politicians in India are selfish, greedy and shortsighted, One way to prevent such ridiculous bills like the 50% reservation, would be for Big companies (Who would get directly hit by the reservations) to bribe the greedy politicians to vote against it. After all money makes them do all evils, why not use it to do some good for the country? Reservation is a typical example of fighting an evil with an evil. Two wrongs would never make it right.
Thanks
KP
Reading this article, the immediate opinion I formed is that you have a much distorted understanding of "Who Hindus are?" The people-group Hindus are not defined by a religion whereas Muslims/Christians are. Thus the comparison of the affairs of Hindus with another set of Muslim/Christian people is like comparing Apples with Oranges.
Hindus/Hindi/Hindustani are native of the land called India/Hindostan/Bharat. Yes, the very ancestors followed the Vedic teachings and idol-worship and many are still following now. But this does not mean those who gave up this practice are no longer Hindus.
Muslims / Christians from India are very much Hindustani (or Hindu or Hindi or Indian) by virtue of their heritage and ancestry from this country. This article is yet another attempt in portraying them as aliens of this country. Thus a Muslim/Christian can also be from Ezhavas or Nairs by Caste. But fortunately for most Muslims/Christians of this country, their adoption of a religion have eventually moved them away from the Caste-system, which has traditionally (and even in 21st century) has dominated the Indian societies.
Thus for Muslims/Christians they have moved away from this Caste-based identification (not 100%). And hence within them there is no such area of discrimination. Whereas a large majority, and for sake of identification - idol worshippers, are still identifying & discriminating themselves based on Castes & Race.
You further point that 92% committed suicides are Hindus (read non-muslim/non-christians) but so simply ignore the fact that nearly 90% of the population is of this group. So it’s very logical that most of the stuffs (deaths, aids-infection, illiteracy, etc) will be proportionate to their population. If you consider the Natural deaths of the Non-Muslims/Non-Christians of this country that would be 90% too. So will you now blame the God for injustice?
Your point that there should be reservation in ‘minority'-controlled institutions is like demanding a space on neighbor’s lawn. Nothing stops any Hindu caste, whether Ezhavas or Nairs in owning their own institutions. In fact there are many, and Muslims/Christians don’t get reservation on them. It’s the Muslims/Christians who are at disadvantage (in the case you highlighted) of getting no reservations on Government institutions and have to shell huge sum to get a seat at institutions supposedly theirs. In any case, if one deems fit demanding space on neighbor’s lawn, then at least it should first begin by setting example themselves.
In every issue (of the communities you consider as the Hindus) you see appeasement of the other minority communities. For the sake of rationality, can you explain what an issue between two castes got to do with the pandering of Muslim vote-bank.
my active blog: www.subcoded.com
Reading this article, the immediate opinion I formed is that you have a much distorted understanding of "Who Hindus are?"
Further
The people-group Hindus are not defined by a religion whereas Muslims/Christians are.
Subhan,
The above is a distorted view, initially propagated by the missionaries and picked up by what is being called secular people. What the secularists rigidly adhere to is theorizing the hindus in terms of race, thus bluntly saying in their face is that they are ready for conversion - atleast to marxism, secularism etc.
No people defined by religion, still people are. What the brits did is to say the islam is one people, so as christists, but hindus are a bunch of fighting groups. The more they hold power through the JNUs and their masters elsewhere, the more these theories gets prominence, gulliable hindus are forced to believe these.
A book, a prophet was required for being governed by religion. Two books means it is not a religion. It is sad that people still stick to these ideas.
Thanks Rajeev for cutting through the mess, it must have amazing effort.
FYI rediff comments are selected comments.
In any case, if one deems fit demanding space on neighbor’s lawn, then at least it should first begin by setting example themselves.
Subhan thinks some one is demanding space in labour's lawn, what idiots they must be! These idiots are one - The 'hindu'-castes. That is all idiots, all that need to be cleansed up to make land of pure are hindus, and they are one. But according to our brainwashed friend subham, the Jehadis, power brokers could all be one by a 'religion' ! So nice ! this is what the congress and marxists are doing by playing around with thousands of crores and fighting all around. It works because there are enough sepoys around to get recruited into world of so called secular theories, and payment is good too.
Subhan,
You say "Muslims / Christians from India are very much Hindustani (or Hindu or Hindi or Indian) by virtue of their heritage and ancestry from this country. "
Then to try and prove ur point you say something contradictory " Your point that there should be reservation in ‘minority'-controlled institutions is like demanding a space on neighbor’s lawn. "
And your entire argument is based on the above statement @ neighbors lawn.
If Indian Muslims & Christians are Hindustani then where is the question of 'neighbors lawn' ??
Secondly, you are not a true Hindustani...if you were you would know that Hindus are not 'idol-worshippers'...they dont worship the idol...idols are a yantra to help harness & focus the mind to pray to God. Your terminology stinks of someone educated & still in the 'convent -look down on native culture- school' mode.
Next you say "If you consider the Natural deaths of the Non-Muslims/Non-Christians of this country that would be 90% too. So will you now blame the God for injustice?" Thats ridiculous ! Suicide or murder is NOT the same as a natural death. Just like your loosing 1000 dollars is NOT the same as someone stealing it.
Nah Guys! Don't even bother to respond to this guy's sad post.
His name is "Subhan Ahsan" and according to his blog he contributes to blogs called "Islamistan" and "desicritics.org".
Desicritics.org has articles such as:
# » Anatomy of the Vadodara Riot
# » Mytoday.com - RSS Aggregation
Some "Hindu" this dude!
My only advice to him is to go to Deoband in UP and try selling his idea of Muslims being Hindu to the fanatics there!
Also, I don't think we should take offence at him calling Hindus Idol-Worshippers.
It is very similar to our ancestors calling the marauding muslim hordes "Maleechas" when they started polluting our landscape.
The difference between Subhan Ahsan (along with the majority of Muslims) and the Hindus is that the Hindus have grown up and don't call them Maleechas anymore but they are still at the same "Marauding Muslim Horde" level (who still think of Hindus as Idol-worshippers).
Not their fault, I don't think their "BOOK" leaves any scope for them to evolve anyway.
just a technical addition to indusaquarius comment about the mlecha
I don't think the word was specifically invented for muslims, or even, as the common belief is , for "foreigners". it may have taken that meaning for a limited space-time later on
In fact Dr Kalyanaraman in his recent writings has argued that Mlecha was the language spoken by the metal workers who are also the same people behind the indus inscriptions
he says that the mention of mlecha as a language in the jadugriha parva of the Mahabharata "vidureNokto mlechchha vAchAsi pANDava" holds a key to unfolding some mystery
u can read about it and some links on my blogpost
http://drisyadrisya.blogspot.com/2006/01/cryptography-in-mahabharata.html
--------------
So that word is nothing compared to the words used and the punishments recommended in "The Book" for being a "non-believer"
Where the hell are all these anti-Hindu commenters on rediff coming from? They sound like typical FOSAesque marxists. Is there some sort of massive troll operation going on in rediff or is this the general opinion of the people? This worries me, people seem to be buying into all this crap.
Fosa, as well as some of their jihadi brothers(mulla+missionary+marxists) are behind this rediff scam. or maybe they r targeting specifically bharateeya intellectuals like rajeev in rediff. in ibnlive.com, similar topics had almost all responses against divisive reservation and aparthied.Also, if rediff is preventing pro-hindu posts, then they too support the missionary aparthied?
What is the significance of the point that
92 per cent of all those committing suicide in Kerala are Hindus. And Kerala has the highest suicide rate in India.
Can you explain as to how this suits the reservation
I support reservations but here are my thoughts about it...
1)Restrict it as per family size, existing earning potential and actual income.
2)Restrict it as per past reservations in the family.
3)To implement the above a very good monitoring system is required.
If we have the above three in place I think we can truely help the backward communities in our country.
I have seen a family of size 12 with 11 members either a gazetted officer or a professional. (IRS, IPS,Doctors, Engineers and Bank Managers) All thanks to reservations. Is this what the government wants to do?
Rajeev ....your articles are always highly informative. Please cmment on my
comment
[i]Where the hell are all these anti-Hindu commenters on rediff coming from? They sound like typical FOSAesque marxists. Is there some sort of massive troll operation going on in rediff or is this the general opinion of the people? [/i]
Hi someone. these marxists are well organised and they even have online communities to co-ordinate their attacks. check out the community "communist cell, orkut" on orkut.com. if u don't have a account there give me ur email id. i will mail u the invite :)
>>> Muslims / Christians from India are very much Hindustani (or Hindu or Hindi or Indian) by virtue of their heritage and ancestry from this country. This article is yet another attempt in portraying them as aliens of this country.
When they want reservations, they claim they are not aliens. They try to redefine Hinduism as "natives of India", and claim to be Hindus. haha.. nice ploy.
re. from article:
"Ironically, Nairs got Travancore government jobs a century ago only after an agitation demanding equal rights, because most of those jobs had previously been given to Tamil Brahmins!"
-------- Rajeev,
when tamil brahmins migrated to kerala many years back,
travancore was one of the places they went to.
the raja of travancore was their patron, he gave them food
and shelter. taking care of brahmins was considered
important in those days, becoz they were the ones
that carried the vedic and spiritual knowledge and could
do pujas and homas. in the varna system, the "head" is
more important than hands, body, feet. though all are
necessary.
in the same spirit, i guess later on, they were given priority for jobs.
you have a tendency to show great respect for vedic knowledge, spirituality, temples, tradition etc, and have even gone to the extent of insisting that women should not wear churidars in
temples, they should wear only
sarees, because YOU find churidar unaesthetic). you have also quoted in
some old rediff article, what
sri krishna says about varnas.
but the patronage extended
by the older hindu society to brahmins seems to upset you.
you cant talk out of both
sides of the mouth.
even in the corporate world, the "head" is more important
than the "body", "hands" "legs". so
the CEO is given HIGH priorty and
salary, and worker ants are paid
differently.
this is a NATURAL model,
which even the Gita refers to. this
is how nature organizes.
but your articles seem to
extol the old on one hand, and on
the other hand, you are upset that
brahmins were given greater
importance than others.
_
contd:
the CEO is given HIGH priorty and
salary, and worker ants are paid
differently, because CEO is more
irreplacable and indispensable to
the group.
This is for Daisies....
Reservations is about equal oppurtunities not about intelligence or power. It is meant to give equal oppurtunities to all the people on a weightage basis. the weightage is based on how disadvantaged you and your ancestors are against certain communities like brahmins. Also in the same analogy you cited markets thrive in competition. So reservations is a tool to bring more and more people into the field to make the so called elite( brahmins and in general the educated/forward castes) more competitive. It is actually bringing it closer to your natural model....unless you think brahmins are martians and so not natural!!
no surya, you are missing my point.
what you are talking of is the new
social order, based on open
market and the validity of
reservations in this day.
what i am talking of is how rajeev
criticizes actions taken in the
older social order, and the older
society, at the same time he
praises vedic heritage etc etc.
that old society had its own basis
of economics. varna system
operated on whole society as a
group.
overnight, was it reasonable to
expect that system to change ?
another analogy might be queens &
kings continuing in some countries.
not an exact analogy, but similar.
there is queen in england, kings
in some other countries even, with
new political systems.
because the old cannot be wiped out
overnight.
the queen of england to me seems
like she belongs to dinsosaur age
and her country spends so much on
her and her descendants upkeep.
for her country, she means
something, though for us, she
may mean nothing at all.
but old systems cannot and need
not be thrown out overnight. they
can only be phased out over time.
_
i thought that was from surya, or
did i read it wrong, or was i
looking at the name in some other
comment ?
then let me retype - mobiusstrip
instead of surya.
mobius-strip,
re:
"Also in the same analogy you cited markets thrive in competition".
--- that is NOT what I cited! you
missed my point there too. i
think you were rushing to find
meanings that support your own
views :-)
I was saying, that in a set-up
of interdependent people, such
as a bee-hive, or a company,
or the old indian society,
there are the more important
people and the less important,
though all are needed.
the more important persons get
more patronage. gita refers to
such a model.
I was not saying ANYTHING
about markets thriving on
competition. Neither does Gita
refer to competition and free
market systems.
Please dont confuse the two.
Gita is too important a book
to misquote.
_
Diasies
"Also in the same analogy you cited markets thrive in competition".
I actually meant (notice the comma)
"Also in the same analogy you cited, markets thrive in competition".
I was just trying to say that we need more and better people (CEO, engineer...whatever) who can catch up with the progress in our society. So give oppurtunities to all. Initially it may look lopsided but I think we will end up more egilaritarian than we are now.Please see one of my previous comments and exchange your opinions.
I speak like this inspite of my experiences with very bad ceos and managers thanks to reservations.
I am not bothered about Gita or the relevance of caste system once upon a time. I clearly see it left a highly segregated groups of people with some groups lagging behind in all things basic and humane. I think reservations can be used to make our society more egilaritarian and skillfull to embrace the progress.
re:
mobius-strip,
you already stated your viewpoints
somewhere and had your say. if you
DONT care about Gita, why were you
mixing up your comments with mine,
when my post wasnt addressed to
you, nor was my post anything at
all about reservations.
i was writing with specific
reference to Rajeev's comments.
he cares a lot about Gita.
you dont have to reply to my post
to convince me/others of your views
on reservations. dont get mixed up
in a dialogue that has nothing to
do with YOUR views on reservations.
it will only confuse others who are following the thread here.
my post was very very specific.
no need to try to convince me about
your views.
_
Hey Mobis...watever..!!
You are mixing things here. Be specific. I dont understand how reservations create more equality and more opportunities. Reservations as they exist today are out and out caste based. I dont understand how these caste based reservations reduce the divide.
Reservations in any form are no way promote equality. Keep everyting open to anyone. Schools, colleges, universities et all should give admission to the worthy whether they can pay the fee or not. Havent you heard of the story of NR Narayana Murthy ( though I dont like him) who couldnt join an IIT becasue his father was poor. Such people need to be given admission not those who couldnt even count the fingers on a hand.
Firstly...let me clear the mixup....I thought Rajeev's main topic is about reservations and most of the comments too are about reservations. So the mix up is probabaly not in my comments.
And lastly I will try to be more specific to Surya's comments on my thoughts.Before I say anything I believe we should not take one person and use it as an example to prove something. I mean Narayana Murthy's case is irrelevant in this discussion. Now, the only basis for reservations is, at one point of time our leaders recognized that there are various groups of people who are backward and disadvantaged. The main reason for this state of society is caste based social and economic structure that was prevalant in our society long long ago.Education was not for all. Money handling was not for all. Fighting was not for all. People were divided by their profession. The worst thing that happened because of this was "untouchabilty". Add to that unaccessabilty to temples. And the tribal societies that were backward not because of these systems but because of their natural distance to the main stream. How do you bring all these groups into one group? Let us call this group "ONE". ONE represents democracy. ONE represents modern skill set and views such as education,equality. Anybody can become any professional. Any body can visit temples. Again how do we make this ONE. First by recognizing that intellect and adaptabilty are not because of caste but because of the nature of human being. Second by recognizing that some groups need to be addressed specially because they were deprived and oppressed by other groups. It means give them more weightage now. This way we are mixing these groups in different proportions hoping that the end result will be ONE with more talented and enlightened human beings. The current generations are seeing the transition not the end result. May be after 50 years we can see the end result. This transition can be faster if we dont play dirty politics and improve the implementation policies.
Now, the only basis for reservations is, at one point of time our leaders recognized that there are various groups
To say it just at heppened as cooly 'at one pint of time' by our established leaders doesn't give the complete picture. There have been serious talk of reservations which our leaders had opposed. As one reads the final settlement was for a 10 years reservation for SC/STs alone.
How do you bring all these groups into one group?
When one familly has meant smaller and smaller people with less in sharing, is it really about no bars hold group ? Is something missing ?
How do you bring all these groups into one group?
Explore the otherway around, has it been pre-decided by some idiot about how to define a group as 'ONE'. Has there been little bit of pison for hindus in this definition ?
All secularists and their propaganda channels know this, but it is useless for their activity. If you check the state of temples, and temple culture around the country, there has been no value attached by the establishment to the temples. Such a thing without value couldn't have been as decissive.
Exploring the otherway around.....hindus just happen to be in the majority of the groups.I think it is a social problem. I am sure it is there in China and Africa too. I mean the division of society into groups. We all know it helped the society to divide into groups of caste which were defined by a profession or a role. It got matured and helped the societies to grow stronger and richer. The current society demands more efficient structuring of people. I see it like this 0)group to "MANY" to manage the evolution (past) 1)regroup to "ONE" and evolve further (current) 2)Group to "MANY" to manage the evolution (future)3)May be again regroup to "ONE" and evolve further(future).....so it is not about hindus or secularists....I think these changes will happen as the society struggles to survive and evolve. The opposition and the dirty politics will be there in all the phases ( ONE and MANY).
Appreciate your candid answer. Majority like you are minorities in this setup. The post above on definitions is true, and thats how these politicians are working. Arjun Singh is concerned about obeying somebody to become a cbt minister, forget about his realization of a need and such audacious change.
There will never be one people, for example both of us will most likely remain as two, that happens even within a familly. Still one could say people already are one. So there are a lot that still could make one, there are one which means all are nuts :) But all these appear different issues that has value in saner times.
In a ONE we both will remain two different people but we both got same kinda oppurtunities given by the society. I think ONE is required if a society needs more inventions, discoveries and innovations in any field. (sports, science, agriculture etc). So in an ideal ONE scenario we two are more likely to play this role in our own fields. That way we are ONE.
In a MANY we both will remain two different people and we are expected to take up certain roles desired by the society. I think MANY is required if a society needs more management, administration and sustainabilty in any field. (sports, science, agriculture etc). So in an ideal MANY scenario we two are more likely to play this role in our own fields.
ONE and MANY are two extemes we will never reach but sometimes we are neaer to ONE and sometimes we are nearer to MANY.Some interesting examples: Take a well established business family...The children are expected to be in the business and take care of the business. One child becomes marketing incharge, another becomes technical incharge....and they manage the business. The roles are almost predetermined inspite of the child's education or no education. Now take a middle class indian family. The family head decides and strives to give equal oppurtunities to the children. Better schooling. Better tution. etc. They are very likely to end up as professionals in their own field. They decide their roles after availing the oppurtunity. They are more lilely to become innovators in their fields....and they create the business or support the creation of business.
re. Mobius-strip's comment:
"The main reason for this state of society is caste based social and economic structure that was prevalant in our society long long ago.Education was not for all. Money handling was not for all. Fighting was not for all. People were divided by their profession."
---Well, this is not the whole
truth. Long long long ago,
sociey was meaningfully divided
according to some old wisdom.
social evils eventually came in
due to blind belief.
Anyway, the Mughals and British
reduced the whole of India to
misery and poverty and they
levelled the playing field. in
a miserable way.
So it didnt matter after that
what caste you were. Poverty
hit the majority of people.
Only some people had a lot of
money.
So it is meaningless to talk of
upper-caste having advantages
over lower.
For professional colleges today,
the only reservations that are
meaningful are MERIT + MEANS
based.
Caste-based reservations for
professional colleges/jobs, are
not fair. There are poor in
every caste.
For SC/ST's special help should
be given at the schooling level.
Maybe 100% monetary help.
I come from an "upper-caste"
family whose in whose past
history there was only dire dire
poverty, struggle and toil.
My community does not ask for
reservations.
So sorry guys, no cribbing that
only the SC/ST/OBC have faced
poverty and other castes had all
fair-weather and sunshine. ALL
castes have faced poverty,
thanks to the Mughal invaders
and the lovely British.
_
The real problem is the urban UC is not able to understand the difficulties faced by BCs in rural India as well as cities. Guys there is so much hidden and subconscious bias practised by upper class colleagues and bosses you have no idea about. The protesting UC students in cities haven’t really seen the real picture of Indian society. They are too focused on their own future, security and have little compassion and understanding of the sufferings of BCs. True that there are going to be few culprits who will misuse quotas but at the same time there will be a genuine benefit going towards much larger portion of deserving BCs. Taunting, victimisation, back-stabbing and leg-pulling of BCs is very common. I suggest the UC guys, go to an interview in a private company where the usually all the members of interview board are from UC. Portray yourself as a BC with good marks. See if you get selected or not. Do this couple of times. The experiences and treatments you are given will change your attitude towards reservation forever and will help you understand why reservation really exists. The quota system atleast provides an helping hand in such situations. The ‘Merit’ and ‘Fair-ground’ based arguments are missing the central point. A BC student if scores even 65% marks against all odds (a lack of education in family and hence lack of any guidance from elders, the absence of atmosphere favourable to higher education in family, leg-pulling by UC bosses and colleagues) then that BC candidate is as good as or better than an UC candidate who has scored 90% with all the favourable conditions and guidance.
Think why reservation really exist. If upper-caste people stop practising casteism, there won’t need for reservation. The real problem is not reservation the real real problem is the casteism and casteist mindset of many upper caste people. If politicians are evil then selfish upper caste group is a bigger evil indeed. Atleast the selfish politicians will facilitate some benefit to deserving needy backward caste candidates somewhere.
durva,
appreciate your post. thanks for
writing about things we may not
know about.
reg:
"The ‘Merit’ and ‘Fair-ground’ based arguments are missing the central point. A BC student if scores even 65% marks against all odds... then that BC candidate is as good as or better than an UC candidate who has scored 90% with all the favourable conditions and guidance."
-- brings to mind how a race is
conducted with handicaps when
children of different ages are
in the group --- you put the
tiniest kid a few yards in
front, so he has to run less.
so, wouldn't it make sense to
have a multiplication factor
for OBC marks, to make them all
apples to apples comparison ?
unconditional reservation does
not seem wise. what do you
think ?
your viewpoint is interesting.
_
Subhan,
Get your facts straight before you spout your nonsense again. Hindus comprise just over 55% of total Kerala population, not 90% as you lie. Check here for proof http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Summary%20Hindus.pdf
>And hence within them there is no such area of discrimination. Whereas a large majority, and for sake of identification - idol worshippers, are still identifying & discriminating themselves based on Castes & Race.
>
Subhan,
This is how Saudis treat Pakis.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/060514/43/648i7.html
Yeah sure there is no discrimination in islam. This statement is as true as Islam is a peaceful religion.
It is not a one-off case. We knew abt NRN becasue he became famous afterwards. What about others who faced the same problem and sucked into oblivion.
There is this gal from Andhra Pradesh who secured All India 24th Rank in this year's IIT-JEE. He mother is a coolie. They are much much below poverty level. Now, this gal needs to pay around 30K per annum to study in IIT.
Dont you think she needs to be given admission irrespective of whether she pays the fee or not? Or atleast she deserves help from govt?
There are many such cases among all the castes. It is only that we know very little about them.
lmj
Think why reservation really exist. If upper-caste people stop practising casteism, there won’t need for reservation. The real problem is not reservation the real real problem is the casteism and casteist mindset of many upper caste people.
Really... Mahatmas lile Lalu, Karunanidhi, Sonia , Arjun Singh have no other issue than becoming equal to all and sundry ! So also all these power brokers in academics and media ? Basically it exists to give these arjun SInghs a justification for being a cbt minister, this naught could do nothing more as HRD than obeying some masters.The real reason for reservation is something else....
I know some of these BC arguments, how people gain by demonizing unnessesarily in other areas. It must be the same in politics.
Comments are more interesting than the article!
I like to see what the bloggers who are opposing reservations think about private engineering and medical colleges. If I can't get a seat on merit I can pay donation and become a professional!!What if I am poor? Ofcourse I can't. Isn't this a division, like reservations!!!? There is a common exam out there that judges my aptitude to become an engineer or a doctor. And if I fail to meet certain merit or marks I have an option to pay money and bypass that judgement.
Subhan , first of all you should understand that you're a converted hindu , probably your ancestrors were forcefully converted during moplah terrorism in malbar areas. Before you define hinduism , you should be aware of this fact.Now you say there's no caste system in Islam and X-ianity. what a lie, Mr? Go to any kerala church and you'll see harijan converts are buried in a separate cemetries. Can you marry the daughter of high caste muslims like Kunjali or Thangal or terrorist E Ahmed? are you so sure there isnt any casteism in your kerala islam ?
What is the major contribution of kerala muslims ? - ask anyone - answr is simple - TERRORISM with support from ISI and CPM!
How many hindus are slaughtered daily and with the help of your evil ministers, you support the terrorists. Hindus are pushed to suicide by the islamic-christian mafia which control the economy in a state like Kerala. Just see the rise of sandalwood mafia, land mafia (conversion of forests to 'cross' cultivation), spirit mafia, loan sharks. And 'minority' controlled govts' never help hindus in kerala. This is a fact, brother.
Almost 95% of institutions in kerala is under 'minority management', you still do not want to provide reservation to the poor. This shows your real racism just like the mullahs and mahdanis in your religion. Look at the staff recruitments in minority aided schools/colleges in kerala. Real aparthied and discrimination for poor hindus. And you say , just like creepy missionaries, that you are dis-advantaged , even after trying to ethnically cleanse the innocent hindus in Norther kerala. But please dont ever think we'll be tolerant always.
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