April 19th
so much christian love, i don't know if i can stand it.
also, note the 'please send money'
look at the dramatis personae involved, aka 'saints':
a. thomas, the fake, who never even came to india
b. francis xavier, the inquisition monster
and fifth column native clergy who live quietly. known these days as 'sleepers'.
expect this sort of stuff to be redoubled by the new godman.
forwarded by a friend.
AD EXTREMAS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON
SEMINARIES FOR NATIVE CLERGY
"Converting thousands of Hindus from the myths and vile superstitions
of Brahmans"
Given at Rome, at St. Peter's, on the 24th day of June, in the year
1893, the sixteenth year of Our pontificate.
LEO XIII:
To Our Venerable Brothers, the Patriarchs, Archbishops and
Bishops and other Ordinaries in Peace and Communion with the Holy See.
Venerable Brothers, Health and Apostolic Benediction.
The Orient, courageously and successfully explored by the Portugese,
is coveted by many today for its lucrative trade. We, however, have a
more noble purpose in mind. We reflect upon those immense regions of
the Indies where for many centuries men of the Gospel have expended
their labor. Our thoughts turn first of all to the blessed Apostle
Thomas who is rightly called the founder of preaching the Gospel to
the Hindus. Then, there is Francis Xavier, who long afterwards
dedicated himself zealously to the same praiseworthy calling. Through
his extraordinary perseverence, he converted hundreds of thousands of
Hindus from the myths and vile superstitions of the Brahmans to the
true religion. In the footsteps of this holy man followed numerous
priests, secular and religious, who with the authority and permission
of the Holy See strove untiringly to preserve and promote the
Christian mysteries and institutions introduced by Thomas and renewed
by Xavier. To this day, they are continuing these noble efforts;
nevertheless, in the vast reaches of the earth, many are still
deprived of the truth, miserably imprisoned in the darkness of
superstition! How very great a field, especially in the north, lies
yet uncultivated to receive the seed of the Gospel!
2. Pondering these needs, We place our trust in Our Savior who alone
knows the exact circumstance and time to bestow his light; he is wont
to direct the mind and hearts of men by divine inspiration. But,
assuredly, We ought to exert every possible effort to convert such a
great part of the world. We have been searching for possible ways of
better organizing and expanding Christianity in the East Indies, we
have decided upon certain measures to help achieve Our goal.
New Dioceses
3. First of all, to be sure, with respect to the patronato of the
Portuguese people in the East Indies, We have concluded a formal pact
with the most faithful king of Portugal and Algerve. This agreement
has removed the causes of dissensions, which had disrupted Christians
for so long a time. These communities have been under obedience to
apostolic vicars and prefects. We have decided to form them into
dioceses with their own bishops to be administered by ordinary right.
Therefore, by the apostolic letter, Humanae salutis, given on the
first of September, 1886, a new hierarchy has been instituted in
those regions, consisting of eight church provinces, namely, Goa as
the patriarchal see, Agra, Bombay, Verapoly, Calcutta, Madras,
Pondichery and Colombo. Furthermore, through the Congregation of the
Propagation of the Faith, We will do whatever will be fruitful there
for salvation and for the increase of faith and piety.
Native Clergy
4. The preservation of the Christian faith among the Hindus will be
precarious and its propagation uncertain as long as there is not a
native clergy properly trained for priestly duties, not only to be of
assistance to foreign priests, but also to be in rightful charge of
the administration of the Christian Church in their cities. Tradition
tells us that Frances Xavier maintained this same opinion. They say
that he used to assert that the Christian cause in India could never
have firm roots without the continuing dedication of a pious and
zealous clergy native to India. It is clearly evident that he had a
keen understanding of the issue. Certainly the work of the
missionaries coming from Europe is beset with many obstacles. Most
especially, indeed, is their unfamiliarity with the vernacular, which
is very difficult to learn. There is also the remoteness of
institutions and customs which remain unfamiliar even after a long
period of time. Hence, the European clergy is forced to live there as
in a strange land. Since a foreign clergy, therefore, has difficulty
in winning the hearts of the people, it is plain that the work of a
native clergy would be far more fruitful. From experience, they know
the nature and customs of their people; they know when to speak and
when to keep silent. In fine, they live among Hindus as Hindus
without causing any suspicion and it is, indeed, difficult to say how
important this is especially in times of crisis.
5. Then, again, it is necessary to realize that the number of
missionaries abroad is far from adequate to serve the existing
Christian communities. This deficiency is plainly evident from the
mission statistics. The missionaries in India keep on imploring the
Sacred Congregation for more preachers of the Gospel. Now, if there
are not enough foreign priests to care for souls, what will happen in
the future when the number of Christians will have multiplied? Nor,
indeed, is there any reason to hope that the number of missionaries
will increase proportionately. Consequently, if we want to be
concerned for the salvation of India and the establishment of
Christianity in that immense region on a firm foundation, we will
have to select candidates from the native people, who after careful
training will assume priestly functions and duties.
6. Thirdly, we must not overlook an eventuality, even though at the
present time it is improbable. Such critical conditions could arise
in Europe or Asia that would compel foreign priests to leave the
Indies. In that event, how could religion survive without a native
clergy: with no one to administer the sacraments, no one to teach the
law of God? The history of the Chinese, Japanese, and Ethiopians
speaks clearly enough about this hazard. More than once, the
Christians in Japan and China had to suffer from hatred and calamity.
The hostile people in power exiled and executed alien priests, but
spared the native. Because they were completely familiar with the
language and customs of their native land and were sustained by
friends and relatives, they were allowed not only to remain unharmed
in their country, but also to administer the sacraments freely, and
perform pastoral duties in all the provinces. On the contrary, the
Ethiopia, where Christians already numbered 200,000, a sudden storm
of persecution completely destroyed the fruits of long labor because
there was no native clergy when the European missionaries were killed
or expelled.
7. Finally, there must be respect for antiquity; whatever we see
advantageously established in times past must be religiously
preserved. Now, it was the practice of the Apostles first to instruct
the multitude in Christian precepts, then to select several from the
people and initiate them into the sacred mysteries and even elevate
them to the episcopacy. This example was followed afterwards by the
Roman pontiffs. Their custom has always been to direct missionaries
to exert every means to select a native clergy wherever the Christian
community grew sufficiently large. To take care, therefore, of the
preservation and propagation of the Catholic religion among the
Hindus, a Hindu clergy has to be formed that could administer the
sacraments and govern the Christian people properly, no matter how
menacing the times.
Seminaries
8. For that reason, the prefects of the Congregation of the Indies,
with the advice and approval of the Holy See, have founded seminaries
for priests wherever possible. The Synods, moreover, of Colombo,
Bangalore and Allahabad, held at the beginning of 1887, have decreed
that every diocese should have its own seminary for the training of a
native clergy; if any of the suffragan bishops do not have the
financial means to do so, they are to have their seminarians trained
in the metropolitan seminary at their own expense. The bishops are
making every effort to implement these beneficial decrees, but their
most admirable willingness is hindered by lack of funds and by the
want of qualified priests to supervise instruction and direct
discipline judiciously. Hence, there are hardly any seminaries where
candidates are able to complete a prescribed course of studies-and
this is at a time when the civil government and Protestants, in large
numbers, are sparing no expense nor effort to offer young men a
judicious and refined education.
9. It is evident, therefore, how opportune it is and how consistent
with the public good to erect in the East Indies some seminaries
where the native youth, the hope of the Church, are educated in all
the refinements of doctrine and also in those virtues essential for
the pious and wholesome exercise of sacred functions. As the reasons
for dissensions have been removed by the pact agreed upon, and as the
diocesan administration had been erected by the hierarchy of the
Church, we would seem to have attained our goals if we could provide
a sound basis for the training of the clergy. For, as We have said,
once seminaries for the clergy have been founded, qualified priests
in great numbers would come forth, and in spreading the truth of the
Gospel, would skilfully utilize the important resources of their
studies.
Financial Contributions
fitting that Europeans make some financial contribution, especially
because We alone are not able to manage the vast cost of such an
enterprise. It is the mark of Christians to cherish all mankind as
brothers wherever they are, and to exclude no one from their love,
particularly in matters upon which the eternal salvation of their
neighbour depends. We, therefore, earnestly request that you will
fully support our undertaking. Be sure that the role of Christianity
in such remote regions becomes well known. Make your people
understand that something must be done for the Hindus. May they who
believe that works of mercy are the most perfect investment
especially realize this need.
11. We are convinced that we have not appealed in vain to the
generosity of your people. If the contributions should exceed the
expenditures for the seminaries which we have mentioned above, we
shall take care that the remaining funds will be used beneficially
and conscientiously on other projects.
12. In token of heavenly favors, and as a witness of Our good will,
most lovingly in the Lord, We bestow upon you, venerable brothers,
upon your clergy and your people the Apostolic Blessing.
Wednesday, April 20, 2005
CNN: what chinese textbooks don't say
April 19th
another big hoax from the religion of marx: the chinese simply pretending things didn't happen. just like they used to cut people out of history books and photographs as soon as they became 'disgraced': they were non-people, didn't exist. the soviets used to do this too.
the chinese are amazingly silent about their fellow communists kicking their butt in 1989 or so. the vietnamese thrashed an invading chinese army and drove them back with massive casualties. so much for the all-conquering people's imprisonment army.
when is the malayali marxist on this blog (probably the poster previously known as 'george' based on his written language) going to be purged for lack of ideological purity?
thanks to the anonymous poster for sending this
another big hoax from the religion of marx: the chinese simply pretending things didn't happen. just like they used to cut people out of history books and photographs as soon as they became 'disgraced': they were non-people, didn't exist. the soviets used to do this too.
the chinese are amazingly silent about their fellow communists kicking their butt in 1989 or so. the vietnamese thrashed an invading chinese army and drove them back with massive casualties. so much for the all-conquering people's imprisonment army.
when is the malayali marxist on this blog (probably the poster previously known as 'george' based on his written language) going to be purged for lack of ideological purity?
thanks to the anonymous poster for sending this
new godman is the erstwhile grand inquisitor
April 19th
forwarded by a friend.
THE GRAND INQUISITOR RATZINGER BECOMES POPE BENEDICT XVI
All doubts about the direction which the Catholic Church might take
following John Paul II's death have been dispelled by the election Cardinal
Josef Ratzinger of Munich as Pope Benedict XVI. He is even more conservative
and even reactionary than his predecessor. This is how he was described by
two leading Vatican observers nearly 15 years ago:
"Ratzinger is perhaps the closest to the Pope [John Paul II] of all the
Curia [Vatican administration] Cardinals. ...A deeply pessimistic man, he
feels that the Church is collapsing, and only the suppression of all dissent
can ensure its survival as a united faith. He regards those who do not share
his pessimism as 'blind and deluded'."
This man of doom and gloom is now the guiding spirit of this 'spiritual
institution' that is facing virtual meltdown in Europe!
And who is this prophet of doom who believes that suppression of dissent
is the only salvation. He was, until his election as Pope Benedict XVI, the
head of an office known as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
This serene sounding office located in a building with an even more serene
name Casa Santa (Saintly House) hides a history that resonates with fear.
Prior to 1965, the Congregation for the Doctine of the Faith was known
as the Holy Office, and before that, until 1542, as the Holy Inquisition- a
name that still sends shivers down the spine of Europeans. The chief
executive of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is called its
Secretary, though in earlier times, he was known as the Grand Inquisitor.
The new pope, Benedict XVI, aka Josef Ratzinger, was until recently the
Grand Inquisitor.
What did (and does in its modern form) the Grand Inquisitor do? He
presided over trials by Inquisition. Among the notable achievements of the
Holy Inquisition - everything the Church does is Holy - were the persecution
of Galileo for his scientific discoveries and the less known (at least in
India), burning at the stake of his contemporary Giordano Bruno for the same
reason.
Trials by Inquisition were so designed that defense was impossible. Its
'legal' procedure was described by its trial manual known as Libro Negro
(The Black Book), better known as "The Book of Death" as follows:
"Either the person confesses and he is proved guilty by his own
confession, or he does not confess and is equally guilty on the evidence of
witnesses. If a person confesses to the whole of what he is accused of, he
is unquestionably guilty of the whole; but if he confesses to only a part,
he ought still to be regarded as guilty of the whole, since what he has
confessed proves him to be capable of guilt as to the other points of the
accusation... Bodily torture has ever been found the most salutary and
efficient means of leading to spiritual repentence. Therefore, the choice of
the most benefiting mode of torture is left to the Judge of the
Inquisition."
Stalin had nothing over the Grand Inquisitor. It is the charge that
counts-- evidence is immaterial. The grandmaster of the judges of the
Inquisition is now the pope who will bring spiritual salvation to the world,
especially the people of Europe. India of course did not escape the Holy
Inquisition. The Goa Inquisition instigated by 'Saint' Xavier is well known
though it is no longer secularly correct to mention it. But those who may
not know about the Goa Inquisition can still get an idea of the trial by
Inquisition by looking at the trial of the Shankaracharya of Kanchi.
forwarded by a friend.
THE GRAND INQUISITOR RATZINGER BECOMES POPE BENEDICT XVI
All doubts about the direction which the Catholic Church might take
following John Paul II's death have been dispelled by the election Cardinal
Josef Ratzinger of Munich as Pope Benedict XVI. He is even more conservative
and even reactionary than his predecessor. This is how he was described by
two leading Vatican observers nearly 15 years ago:
"Ratzinger is perhaps the closest to the Pope [John Paul II] of all the
Curia [Vatican administration] Cardinals. ...A deeply pessimistic man, he
feels that the Church is collapsing, and only the suppression of all dissent
can ensure its survival as a united faith. He regards those who do not share
his pessimism as 'blind and deluded'."
This man of doom and gloom is now the guiding spirit of this 'spiritual
institution' that is facing virtual meltdown in Europe!
And who is this prophet of doom who believes that suppression of dissent
is the only salvation. He was, until his election as Pope Benedict XVI, the
head of an office known as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
This serene sounding office located in a building with an even more serene
name Casa Santa (Saintly House) hides a history that resonates with fear.
Prior to 1965, the Congregation for the Doctine of the Faith was known
as the Holy Office, and before that, until 1542, as the Holy Inquisition- a
name that still sends shivers down the spine of Europeans. The chief
executive of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is called its
Secretary, though in earlier times, he was known as the Grand Inquisitor.
The new pope, Benedict XVI, aka Josef Ratzinger, was until recently the
Grand Inquisitor.
What did (and does in its modern form) the Grand Inquisitor do? He
presided over trials by Inquisition. Among the notable achievements of the
Holy Inquisition - everything the Church does is Holy - were the persecution
of Galileo for his scientific discoveries and the less known (at least in
India), burning at the stake of his contemporary Giordano Bruno for the same
reason.
Trials by Inquisition were so designed that defense was impossible. Its
'legal' procedure was described by its trial manual known as Libro Negro
(The Black Book), better known as "The Book of Death" as follows:
"Either the person confesses and he is proved guilty by his own
confession, or he does not confess and is equally guilty on the evidence of
witnesses. If a person confesses to the whole of what he is accused of, he
is unquestionably guilty of the whole; but if he confesses to only a part,
he ought still to be regarded as guilty of the whole, since what he has
confessed proves him to be capable of guilt as to the other points of the
accusation... Bodily torture has ever been found the most salutary and
efficient means of leading to spiritual repentence. Therefore, the choice of
the most benefiting mode of torture is left to the Judge of the
Inquisition."
Stalin had nothing over the Grand Inquisitor. It is the charge that
counts-- evidence is immaterial. The grandmaster of the judges of the
Inquisition is now the pope who will bring spiritual salvation to the world,
especially the people of Europe. India of course did not escape the Holy
Inquisition. The Goa Inquisition instigated by 'Saint' Xavier is well known
though it is no longer secularly correct to mention it. But those who may
not know about the Goa Inquisition can still get an idea of the trial by
Inquisition by looking at the trial of the Shankaracharya of Kanchi.
Yvette Rosser: Marxist absurdities
April 19th
a little dated, but very good information about the lies, damned lies, and marxism in the world of 'eminent academicians', generally like k n panikkar, who was 'vice chancellor of sri sankara sanskrit university' without ever knowing a word of sanskrit. i think his major contribution, so to speak, to the place was to start a department of arabic or something equally absurd.
and these are the 'towering intellectuals' among the marxists. objectively speaking, they are third-rate researchers with neither intellect nor knowledge, just a lot of chutzpah. alas for them, their day in the sun is over, as they are being consigned to the garbage everywhere else except in overly-tolerant india.
a little dated, but very good information about the lies, damned lies, and marxism in the world of 'eminent academicians', generally like k n panikkar, who was 'vice chancellor of sri sankara sanskrit university' without ever knowing a word of sanskrit. i think his major contribution, so to speak, to the place was to start a department of arabic or something equally absurd.
and these are the 'towering intellectuals' among the marxists. objectively speaking, they are third-rate researchers with neither intellect nor knowledge, just a lot of chutzpah. alas for them, their day in the sun is over, as they are being consigned to the garbage everywhere else except in overly-tolerant india.
Tuesday, April 19, 2005
swami vivekananda speech tape
April 18th
i am more and more convinced that this tape is not authentic.
but i am also more and more convinced that this doesn't matter.
some other major religions have been telling huge lies, major whoppers, gigantic fibs, and they have managed to convince large numbers of people to not question these obvious fabrications. they have made entire careers out of lies, quasi-miracles, and suchlike preposterous stuff; and they have gotten many people to willingly suspend their disbelief.
so who am i to question a rather minor hoax? more power to the tape-makers.
i am more and more convinced that this tape is not authentic.
but i am also more and more convinced that this doesn't matter.
some other major religions have been telling huge lies, major whoppers, gigantic fibs, and they have managed to convince large numbers of people to not question these obvious fabrications. they have made entire careers out of lies, quasi-miracles, and suchlike preposterous stuff; and they have gotten many people to willingly suspend their disbelief.
so who am i to question a rather minor hoax? more power to the tape-makers.
nehru urging the world to give the security council seat to china, not india
April 18th
when i have mentioned this in the past, people have asked for chapter and verse. well, here it is.
isn't it amazing, india said, 'oh no, we shouldn't have the security council seat until china has it.'
china now says, 'oh no, india shouldn't have the security council seat until pakistan has it.'
seems like a fair exchange, eh?
yes, it does to certain people. for instance, a fellow who shall remain unnamed said this:
The claim is that in addition to attack submarines, the Chinese are planning a major listening post in Gwadar (both to monitor US activity in the Persian Gulf and to track shipping in the Indian Ocean). That may well be true, but to protect its vital oil and gas imports, wouldn't any major nation be expected to take similar measures?
no surprise that this blighter with the rhetorical question is an indian supporting china's containment of india. one of those macaulayputras of whom there are many.
so the chinese dictator came to india, and made no commitments to support india's candidacy. in fact he confused the heck out of their fans. one day, their acolyte newspapers reported "china supports india for security council". the next day they said, "china does not support india for security council". pretty clever, these inscrutable chinese.
but jawaharlal was pretty unambiguous in his support for china. chapter and verse, here it is.
when i have mentioned this in the past, people have asked for chapter and verse. well, here it is.
isn't it amazing, india said, 'oh no, we shouldn't have the security council seat until china has it.'
china now says, 'oh no, india shouldn't have the security council seat until pakistan has it.'
seems like a fair exchange, eh?
yes, it does to certain people. for instance, a fellow who shall remain unnamed said this:
The claim is that in addition to attack submarines, the Chinese are planning a major listening post in Gwadar (both to monitor US activity in the Persian Gulf and to track shipping in the Indian Ocean). That may well be true, but to protect its vital oil and gas imports, wouldn't any major nation be expected to take similar measures?
no surprise that this blighter with the rhetorical question is an indian supporting china's containment of india. one of those macaulayputras of whom there are many.
so the chinese dictator came to india, and made no commitments to support india's candidacy. in fact he confused the heck out of their fans. one day, their acolyte newspapers reported "china supports india for security council". the next day they said, "china does not support india for security council". pretty clever, these inscrutable chinese.
but jawaharlal was pretty unambiguous in his support for china. chapter and verse, here it is.
Selected Works of Jawaharlal Nehru, Series II, Vol. 29, Minutes of meeting with Soviet Leaders,
“Bulganin: While we are discussing the general international situation and reducing tension, we propose suggesting at a later stage
Nehru: Perhaps Bulganin knows that some people in
wall street journal: jairam ramesh on hindi chini bhai bhai
April 18th
i guess jairam ramesh is the kind of IIT product jawaharlal nehru was looking to create: someone who uses his brains to show loyalty to things that are not indian. yeah, chindia indeed. has ramesh heard of the 'greater asian co-prosperity sphere'? this is what china wants, itself as the imperial center and all other asian states as its vassals. this is the model that is imprinted in chinese brains. imperial center. vassals states. gwailo, foreign devils. middle kingdom. center of the universe. and eventually master of the universe when america stumbles.
fortunately, nehru did not succeed fully. not all IIT products are like ramesh.
this whole bonhomie is hindi-chini-bhai-bhai warmed over. i am appalled. the blighters are containing us (latest example, the gwadar port), and we're being taken in by their sweet-talk. i wonder why ramesh is quite silent about china's support for india's security council seat. in your dreams, eh?
someone forwarded excerpts from this article to me to protect wsj's copyright. (why on earth doesn't the wsj make a good bit of its content free? lots of us would read it, and we are not potential paying customers anyway)
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Sour Turns Sweet
By JAIRAM RAMESH
April 18, 2005; Page A18
NEW DELHI -- In April 2003, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao told a visiting
Indian delegation in Beijing that China and India have had, over a
2,200-year-old relationship, mutual peace for 99% of the time and problems for
only 1%. That 1% refers to the period from 1962-1988, when relations between
the two Himalayan neighbors were in deep freeze.
... deleted
In Delhi, he spoke to a high-level business audience, and also at the elite
Indian Institute of Technology -- an institution that epitomizes India’s
growing expertise in knowledge-based industries. But there was politics of a
more traditional sort, too: The Chinese also finally recognized Sikkim as a
part of India in their maps. Sandwiched between Nepal and Bhutan, Sikkim was a
"protectorate" until it became a state of the Indian Union in 1975. The complex
border dispute has now got an 11-point framework for resolution, and
negotiations are to continue through special emissaries.
... deleted
Clearly, trade is one such niche of mutual advantage. The two have decided to
study the possibility of a Free Trade Agreement. In 2005, the volume of
bilateral trade will cross $15 billion, a minuscule proportion of China’s
global trade but 7%-8% of India’s. Contrary to Indian fears, the trade balance
is in India’s favor and the Indian steel industry has had an unusual degree of
success in Chinese markets. The two countries have set a target of $20 billion
by 2008; but going by present trends, this level will be reached next year.
Investment is also taking place: Chinese companies are busy establishing their
presence in areas like telecom and consumer durables while Indian companies
have set up shop in pharmaceuticals, engineering and IT. Most importantly,
while China is the leading target of anti-dumping action by India , Indian
businessmen have shed their fears of China and have a degree of self-confidence
missing five years ago when trade doors were opened fully.
A second area of interaction is high-level political dialogue itself. This is
now institutionalized. Visits of presidents, prime ministers and other
ministerial dignitaries take place at regular intervals. After years of Chinese
reluctance, the two countries have opened a window for discussions on strategic
issues as well. Some provinces of China, like southwestern Yunnan, which has
had a long history of links with the subcontinent, are actively promoting
subregional cooperation with India’s northeast, whose economic future is
intimately linked to Southeast Asia. Among other things, there have been
suggestions to reopen a road built in 1942-43 -- connecting India’s northeast
and Yunnan via Myanmar, and named after the American general, "Vinegar Joe"
Stilwell, who was responsible for its construction.
Rapprochement notwithstanding, distrust of China remains high in India .
Indians cannot easily forgive and forget "Mao’s India War" of October-November
1962. China does believe that Jammu and Kashmir is a bilateral issue between
India and Pakistan to be settled through negotiations and that it should not
hold up India-Pakistan economic ties. Even so, Indians cannot obliterate
memories of China’s pivotal role in the build-up of Pakistan’s nuclear, missile
and military capability. The commissioning of a Chinese-built deep-water port
at Gwadar, in Baluchistan, has added to India’s suspicions. For its part, China
looks with concern at the growing military cooperation between India and the
U.S., manifested, for instance, in the escorts provided by the Indian navy to
U.S. ships through the crucial Straits of Malacca two years back. China and
India jostle for influence in their immediate neighboring countries like Nepal
and Myanmar. And China’s overseas aid assistance program outstrips that of
India’s by a huge 8-to-1 margin, at least.
... deleted
* * *
What does growing Sino-Indian bonhomie mean for the U.S.? In a hark back to the
1950s, there is a view in Washington that positions a democratic India as a
bulwark against the expansionism of an authoritarian China, an expansionism
that is seen as an inevitable consequence of growing economic prowess. This
sentiment appeals to large sections of the Indian intelligentsia as well.
But a Washington-Delhi partnership aimed at China would simply not be in
India’s national interest, just as a Beijing-Delhi gang-up against the U.S.
would not serve larger Indian goals. Admittedly, the U.S. and India have much
more in common with each other, while there are profound differences between
India and China. Even so, India must learn to "walk on two legs," looking at
intensified engagement with the other two countries simultaneously, with each
relationship answering to its own special logic and momentum. Indians can, of
course, silently rejoice in periodic China-bashing in the U.S. and move nimbly
to take advantage of any market opportunities that may be created. But such
bashing can be counterproductive, especially since it is usually ill-informed.
Both the U.S. and India share a common interest in ensuring that the PRC makes
the transition from being the Peoples Republic of China to the Peaceful Rise of
China.
Mr. Ramesh, a member of the Indian parliament, is the author of "Making Sense
of ’Chindia’: Reflections on China and India " (India Research Press, 2005).
i guess jairam ramesh is the kind of IIT product jawaharlal nehru was looking to create: someone who uses his brains to show loyalty to things that are not indian. yeah, chindia indeed. has ramesh heard of the 'greater asian co-prosperity sphere'? this is what china wants, itself as the imperial center and all other asian states as its vassals. this is the model that is imprinted in chinese brains. imperial center. vassals states. gwailo, foreign devils. middle kingdom. center of the universe. and eventually master of the universe when america stumbles.
fortunately, nehru did not succeed fully. not all IIT products are like ramesh.
this whole bonhomie is hindi-chini-bhai-bhai warmed over. i am appalled. the blighters are containing us (latest example, the gwadar port), and we're being taken in by their sweet-talk. i wonder why ramesh is quite silent about china's support for india's security council seat. in your dreams, eh?
someone forwarded excerpts from this article to me to protect wsj's copyright. (why on earth doesn't the wsj make a good bit of its content free? lots of us would read it, and we are not potential paying customers anyway)
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Sour Turns Sweet
By JAIRAM RAMESH
April 18, 2005; Page A18
NEW DELHI -- In April 2003, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao told a visiting
Indian delegation in Beijing that China and India have had, over a
2,200-year-old relationship, mutual peace for 99% of the time and problems for
only 1%. That 1% refers to the period from 1962-1988, when relations between
the two Himalayan neighbors were in deep freeze.
... deleted
In Delhi, he spoke to a high-level business audience, and also at the elite
Indian Institute of Technology -- an institution that epitomizes India’s
growing expertise in knowledge-based industries. But there was politics of a
more traditional sort, too: The Chinese also finally recognized Sikkim as a
part of India in their maps. Sandwiched between Nepal and Bhutan, Sikkim was a
"protectorate" until it became a state of the Indian Union in 1975. The complex
border dispute has now got an 11-point framework for resolution, and
negotiations are to continue through special emissaries.
... deleted
Clearly, trade is one such niche of mutual advantage. The two have decided to
study the possibility of a Free Trade Agreement. In 2005, the volume of
bilateral trade will cross $15 billion, a minuscule proportion of China’s
global trade but 7%-8% of India’s. Contrary to Indian fears, the trade balance
is in India’s favor and the Indian steel industry has had an unusual degree of
success in Chinese markets. The two countries have set a target of $20 billion
by 2008; but going by present trends, this level will be reached next year.
Investment is also taking place: Chinese companies are busy establishing their
presence in areas like telecom and consumer durables while Indian companies
have set up shop in pharmaceuticals, engineering and IT. Most importantly,
while China is the leading target of anti-dumping action by India , Indian
businessmen have shed their fears of China and have a degree of self-confidence
missing five years ago when trade doors were opened fully.
A second area of interaction is high-level political dialogue itself. This is
now institutionalized. Visits of presidents, prime ministers and other
ministerial dignitaries take place at regular intervals. After years of Chinese
reluctance, the two countries have opened a window for discussions on strategic
issues as well. Some provinces of China, like southwestern Yunnan, which has
had a long history of links with the subcontinent, are actively promoting
subregional cooperation with India’s northeast, whose economic future is
intimately linked to Southeast Asia. Among other things, there have been
suggestions to reopen a road built in 1942-43 -- connecting India’s northeast
and Yunnan via Myanmar, and named after the American general, "Vinegar Joe"
Stilwell, who was responsible for its construction.
Rapprochement notwithstanding, distrust of China remains high in India .
Indians cannot easily forgive and forget "Mao’s India War" of October-November
1962. China does believe that Jammu and Kashmir is a bilateral issue between
India and Pakistan to be settled through negotiations and that it should not
hold up India-Pakistan economic ties. Even so, Indians cannot obliterate
memories of China’s pivotal role in the build-up of Pakistan’s nuclear, missile
and military capability. The commissioning of a Chinese-built deep-water port
at Gwadar, in Baluchistan, has added to India’s suspicions. For its part, China
looks with concern at the growing military cooperation between India and the
U.S., manifested, for instance, in the escorts provided by the Indian navy to
U.S. ships through the crucial Straits of Malacca two years back. China and
India jostle for influence in their immediate neighboring countries like Nepal
and Myanmar. And China’s overseas aid assistance program outstrips that of
India’s by a huge 8-to-1 margin, at least.
... deleted
* * *
What does growing Sino-Indian bonhomie mean for the U.S.? In a hark back to the
1950s, there is a view in Washington that positions a democratic India as a
bulwark against the expansionism of an authoritarian China, an expansionism
that is seen as an inevitable consequence of growing economic prowess. This
sentiment appeals to large sections of the Indian intelligentsia as well.
But a Washington-Delhi partnership aimed at China would simply not be in
India’s national interest, just as a Beijing-Delhi gang-up against the U.S.
would not serve larger Indian goals. Admittedly, the U.S. and India have much
more in common with each other, while there are profound differences between
India and China. Even so, India must learn to "walk on two legs," looking at
intensified engagement with the other two countries simultaneously, with each
relationship answering to its own special logic and momentum. Indians can, of
course, silently rejoice in periodic China-bashing in the U.S. and move nimbly
to take advantage of any market opportunities that may be created. But such
bashing can be counterproductive, especially since it is usually ill-informed.
Both the U.S. and India share a common interest in ensuring that the PRC makes
the transition from being the Peoples Republic of China to the Peaceful Rise of
China.
Mr. Ramesh, a member of the Indian parliament, is the author of "Making Sense
of ’Chindia’: Reflections on China and India " (India Research Press, 2005).
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