Dear Rajeev, I follow your writings in Rediff. I think you made your point very well and the analysis with statistics is stunning. Do keep writing more! More about me canbe found at www.arunhere.com and my tamil blog is at http://arunhere.com/pathivu. (I donno whether you know tamil or not).
Hi Rajeev, Agree with you all the way. You are few of those voices which are clear to the point with logics and reasonings all embedded. Hope we get more writers like you who can awaken the ignorants to organise themselves and make things right. My condolences for the kutty family. This is so damn depressing news. Wish and hope there are funds to help this family overcome hardships.
Rajeev Srinivasan is back with a bang !! What a hard hitting article. Rajeev's views are reflective of the current scenario.
To add to the conversion debate let me quote a gentleman named Raj (http://o3.indiatimes.com/Harsh_reality/archive/2005/12/05/355514.aspx):
Whats common between Shahrukh Khan, Aamir Khan, Fardeen Khan, Zayad Khan, Azim Premji's son Rishad Premji, Saif Ali Khan, Naseeruddin Shah, Amjad Ali Khan, Muzaffar Ali, Ayub Khan, Arbaaz Khan, Sohail Khan, Aziz Mirza, Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi, Suhaib Ilyasi (allegedly killed his Hindu wife), Sajid Nadiadwala (allegedly killed his Hindu wife Divya Bharathi), Arshad Warsi, Abu Salem, Mohd. Azharuddin, Saeed Naqvi, Dawood Ibrahim, Tamil Superstar Ajit, Salman Khan's dad Salim Khan, Talat Aziz and Fareed Zakariya.
All these Muslim gentlemen married Hindu (or other non Muslim) girls (sometimes more than once) and converted them to Islam. They are thus assured of a place in Heaven (Jannat) !! RABID CONVERTERS !!
How come Muslim celebrities always end up marrying and converting Hindu girls ?
INDEED THE WORTH OF A HINDU LIFE IS VERY LITTLE !!
Facts with implied reasonings always opens the door to varied interpretations Rajeev. Yes I will agree with you that most majorities get the short end of the stick in an attempt to placate the minority. But let us also face facts, it is a Hindu majority which seeks to quieten its own. The incident in issue has no religious tie to it. What it does smack of is, how people without a voice are generally ignored. Yes! Minorities have representation. They create it so they can be heard. What prevents us Rajeev from representing people such as Mr.Kutty. His plight is repeated across our country. The problem is not religion or minorities. The issue to be focussed on is this-"How do we empower the average everyday Indian to make his voice heard". There lies the solution. Something we can all seek to work towards. Referring to ourselves as "oppressed Hindus" or "Christian fundamentalists" or "Muslim Converters" only drives the wedge of division deeper and make it more painful. We, who have been given the right to reach the masses around us live in a glass house of moral responsibilty. The life of a human is precious.
Four incidents and their results do not calculate life of a hindu person. I do agree that politicians become more active when its comes to saving or helping minorities for they gain name among minorities.
But What would do say when muslims were sloughtered in Gujarat and police and govt just watched that happen?
We should be more worried about the plight of poor and lower middle class people without contacts. Not about what religion these people belonged to.
I do agree that politicians become more active when its comes to saving or helping minorities for they gain name among minorities. ----thats exactly what Rajeev is saying in his article.
We should be more worried about the plight of poor and lower middle class people without contacts. Not about what religion these people belonged to ---I am sure Rajeev is also worried about them...but this article is not about poverty issues...Rajeev is worried about Politicians worrying about (poor or otherwise) Indian's religion rather than treating each case on its merit. His article highlights the hypocrisy of Manmohan Singh govt & their apathy towards Hindus.
You are talking nonsense. Who would you have negotiated a release with? How do you contact the Taliban? Do they have an embassy through which you can send your protests? The only channel was the media, which, to be fair, was used.
In all other cases you mentioned, there was an 'authority' to which you could appeal/ negotiate/ plead/ beg/ demand/ issue demarche to.
PS: Irrelevant to this topic, but importantly, I am a Hindu.
Hi Rajeev, Whatever you have mentioned is a matter of fact. However, the levels of left intellectualism in our country have grown to such heights that most dont even realize that the issues that you pointed out are infact happening, let alone that more than often, they happen through sinister design. The Hindu population of this country has been brainwashed after independence to hate ourselves and look outside for examples. The population has even been made to forget that once upon a time (and for an extremely long time in history), Hindus set the stage for anything at all that happened in the world. So much of effort has been taken to even keep our true history from us. As a consequence, children are being taught in history class that barbaric rulers (who by the way managed to rule India only because of the weakening of Hinduism accompanied with a ton of internal feuds) who killed literally millions of Hindus in the name of religion were good and just rulers. We are being made to forget our ancient and illustrous system of education and follow a British one. I say all the above because I feel that they are fundamental to the issue that you have discussed. Your article is an extremely important one and should serve to make people think in the right direction to stand up and defend Hinduism without any of this plague of pseudo mindedness and rabid left leaning thoughts. To this end, I feel you should write more articles detailing the true history of the vedic civilization and its might and how it served as a guiding light to the entire world in the past. It is my sincere hope that you do not give up on this task and continue to provide readers with more insights into what is happening in the name of minority rights and anything at all that is anti-Hindu. Of all the nations in the world, India is not one where minorities need any representation because the majority is a Hindu population. They will naturally be treated well and that is not something they can find anywhere on this planet. It is time we stood up and did something about all attorcities against Hinduism or we will face the axe again in the name of religion.
It is not a question of "value of Hindu life in India" but rather a question of "value of an Indian life in India or elsewhere". If India were a power like the US no Indian (Hindu, Muslim or of any other faith) would be mistreated in another country.
From what I understand Indian and Indonesian Muslims are not treated same as Arabs in these despotic hell holes.
Many Indians die horrible deaths in India for completely unecessary/prevantable causes. What the media or politicians focus on and make a big deal out of is of little value to the family of an Indian who has died a cruel death in India or in some other despotic country.
The post clearly highlights social divisions created by politicians -- this is the real wedge that needs to be removed, which can only be removed by those communities that are enjoying the benefits of the generous attention they are receiving from these politicians. But then when organized religion colludes with politics and commercial interests, no amount of reasoning will help!! In fact it is the lack of reasoning that is the cause of the majority bashing. If we all believe that we are Indians first then how can we allow divisions between us? If we all really feel that we are from this soil how can we owe allegiance to an external party (be it political or religious) -- that is precisely where the danger is, allegiance to external vested interests.
Yes we Indians have to respect and show complete regard for our own citizenry, and not take internal affaris to the UN and the US human rights commision -- that is where we lose our respect.
Let each religion fix the flaws in their own communities and not point a finger at the other, with a holier than thou attitude. That is where we will gain self-respect.
Most importantly let us stop this business of religious conversion, that is an act of vested interest that splits families, friends, and brings miseries to many future generations and eventually will bring the crusades to our own doorsteps -- a deja vu! We need humanism and not these neo-religionist saviours!!
We need to break the nexus between the organized religion, politicians and commercial interests -- something that the Bible warns about as the axis of evil.
I agree with you that indian government does not value human life. On the other hand, I do not agree with your conclusion that the difference in behavior on the part of indian government was only because of them following different religions. Based on your presentation of the 4 cases, I do not think that all other conditions were the same. Are all the 4 cases have the same education background or financial background or the same social background.
Good job in highlighting the issue. Probably India may the only country in world where majority people are suppressed by themselves. I won’t blame External affairs minister because he is Muslim, it is the fault of each and every Hindu for not taking any responsibility, not being united, supporting Congress, SP, RJD and other political parties which declares they are for minorities and giving special treatment to them and allowing illegal immigrants from Bangladesh for vote bank. I fully support Rajeev and appreciate his efforts in highlighting the problems.
If a Hindu was killing there won’t be any mention of religion or caste but if a minority was killing in fight then media will bring up his religion though it is no way connected to his religion. It is the attitude of Hindu’s which needs to be changed.
Most of the politicians, officials, media persons who back minorities are Hindus. I still remember the days after burning Stains (Australian) where simple disputes between two persons where shown as attacks on minorities, wide protests about nun rapes in MP where nothing had happened at all. Around 40% of Godhra aftermath victims are Hindus but shown as entire Muslim community is Gujarat is washed out and attacks were done by Hindus alone. What a biasing by Hindus towards Hindus.
After Godhra I had see many people arguing it is all because Hindus in train gave slogans in railway station and went into an argument with local Muslims else that incident might not have happened. If Hindus can justify burning live other Hindus just because they bad mouthed Tea vendor in railway station who is Muslim in a small town then no one can save them.
Dear Rajiv I am reading your article on rediff. I am happy to know that at least there are handful of people who really bother about the lives of Hindus. In this country all politicians jsut think about minoriteis but in a true sense now Hindus are minorities. Noone bothers them.
Very nice article. Please keep on writing more. All the best. amit
Dear Rajiv I am reading your article on rediff. I am happy to know that at least there are handful of people who really bother about the lives of Hindus. In this country all politicians jsut think about minoriteis but in a true sense now Hindus are minorities. Noone bothers them.
Very nice article. Please keep on writing more. All the best. amit
I am a new visitor to your blog. Found and read your article at rediff with some interest. The facts mentioned and the supporting info. given does beckon onething. The world will see a major battle by the name "religion".
The word "world" will be so big when we look at it from a distance. The same world will become very narrowed, if an instance happens in our family, wherein we find the problem within a street / town / city.
What else to say here? It's really an end which people are approaching fast. An end which is predicted in the vedhas and Gita. I do hope the same is being specified in other holy books (of other religions, without malafied interpretations).
I am at present in the GCC and could see the spate of life of an indian here. Let me first look at a person as an indian and then further. People are treated like slaves here... They work night and day and earn a few thousands (indian rupees). There is no one literally bothered about their welfare.
Though stories appear day after day, in the local dailies, no one is bothered in India (leave about the local).
We fought against the british, when they treated the indians like dogs. Who is there now to fight against these treatment?
No one will even dare to raise this. Let not anyone argue that many indians are well paid and treated well at offices. I am not here for argument without sufficient knowledge.
The point behind these words... there are going to be more maniappan kutty stories to come in the ensuing days...
People are going to read and show their sympathy as well agree for strong objection and raise slogans... and then go back to their work the next day...
The Hindus and their leaders, for some reason, are quite inept when it comes to arguing their point and fighting a patience battle. Consider, for example, the issue of political dialogue. When it comes to Indian politics, the minorities have hijacked the term 'secular'. Amazingly, no political party that claims to support the Hindu cause has deviced a term that will refer to Hindu vote. Note that saying 'Hindu' directly will not do. People have tried that and failed. A Shivsena leader lost his elected seat in a court battle because the law forbids using religion in election campaign.
It seems to me that those who are highlighting the Hindu cause are making one grave mistake. They are assuming that their point of view is THE ACCURATE one, and the truthful one, and there is no further need to convince anyone. As a result, when someone does not agree fully, they tend to lean towards fanaticism - a perfect recipe for failure.
Why not try and invent a word that will denote targeted Hindus? Why not try to develop a vocab that will be politically correct, that has not been used by others, and that will allows supporters of Hindu cause to say things loudly and clearly without offending any legal provisions?
I can give one example. Rajeev has given a link to the case of abduction of three Hindu girls from Pakistan. If a common man in India knows about this story...do you really think he will vote for anti-hindu parties? Instead of talking about Hindu girls...we can talk about 'Women who cannot breath freely', 'Imprisoned Breath', and so on. Mind you, any westerner will quickly identify with this term....
The problem is, the educated few will keep discussing this in their own net-pockets and the uneducated many will keep getting slaughtered, oppressed, butchered, taken-for-granted, converted..and so on. I urge the readers of this blog to think about civil ways to tackle this problem... without getting too emotional about it.
doesn't matter what political party it is..as soon as it comes to power, it adopts de same strategy to appease de "minorities"
everyone is so concerned about the gujarat massacre and how muslims were butchered there, isn't it?
but where are these same people , why don't they speak up when kashmiri hindus are dragged and massacred? lakhs of them live like refugees in their own countries, but where are the "secularists" to help them???
in the name of "minorities" these peope get extra benefits that we can't even dream of..and today we have come to a state where even if i say that i m a hindu, i would be branded a "fundamentalist".
the fact is that this is how our govt has conditioned us over the years also..
if a muslim dies, all muslim organisations come up giving interviews on tv and in newsppaers saying"dekho dekho hum par atyachar ho raha hai..the majorities are so cruel"
nd if a hindu dies, it is just another death!
every "educated" indian citizen is so happy that our great govt is doing great work to keep the peace process with pakistan alive.. how nice! how touching! when pakistanis come here, we make them feel like kings..
but how many actually know the reality? how our brave soldiers are brutally tortured in their jails, how jawans are killed everyday on our borders? how many of us even think about them? how many of us know that pakistan, under all its friendship face has another very very cruel and ugly face-they promote terrorism in our country and kill innocents?
There are so many "minority" people who openly refuse to give respect to our national anthem and do not sing "vande mataram" becoz it is against their muslim law.. but no action is taken against them..
but in the same muslim law, the punishment for stealing is to cut off both hands..why don't we start giving out these punishment to all muslim thieves? but the moment we start doing this, the shabana azmis and teesta steelwaads of India would have the biggest problem..
When Muslims are kiled in iraq, peace processions are taken out and when hindus die in godhra, no muslim sheds a tear?
there are certain muslim pockets in each city which openly celebrate if in an indo-pak match, pak wins..but no one points a finger at them???
what have i done to deserve this shame? why am i a hindu?
When did Shabana and Teesta support Sharia? They and Javed Akhtar about as anti Sharia as anyone. And why should they or any one else protest about the treatment of Indians(Hindu or otherwise) in another country when they are slaughtered here in India? If you think Hindu life is precious, why did you not write about the Hindu from IIM killed by other Hindus in Bihar? Or Jhajjar, where were the bleeding hearts of RSS/ BJP when dalits were butchered? Or is Hindus murdering Hindus is ok? And what about the appalling show of cowardice by relatives of the hostages of IC814? Their morchas had nothing to do with the CPI or anybody.
Hindus themselves are not very organised as a religious association under some able leadership. We have rich devasthanams (temple committees) etc and trusts that hold funds in crores, but the most important thing is a leader who is clear about the wants and needs of Hindus in the light of current scenario.
Though we have few leaders, they are not focussed on truly needed issues like what Rajeev has raised in his article. Though, we have every right to build a temple at Ayodhya, Ram's birthplace (as simple as a mosque rightfully built at the holy Mecca), that should not be the only agenda. It is only one issue, which might take a lot of time to resolve. Empowering Hindus and encouraging them to rightfully raise to the occasion is more important.
And the most important thing is that, do the people among ourselves, the average Hindu, really value our leaders? For example, how many of us really bother to support someone like a Praveen Bhai Togadia in his voice about foreigners holding esteemed offices in the country. Who really cares if he is being arrested, as a precautionary measure, even before he begins or schedules his rally. Don't you think arresting him in such cases is infringement of right to freedom of expression?
But nothing happens, and no reaction if the Shahi-Imam openly supports terrorism in the mask of 'Jehad'.
Also take the case of a true incident in Hyderabad. One of the preachers of Islam in the old city was being arrested by Gujarat Police in Haren Pandya's murder case, this was protested to such an extent by the people overthere, that a youngman who was in the forefront of the protest lost his life in the firing done by Gujarat Police. Why should there be such a resistance to the arrest of a person involved in terrorist activities? The Police is only carrying out its duty of executing an arrest warrant. And had the accused really been innocent, that would have been proved in the course of investigation.
That is the kind of unity maintained in other religions.
Hindus are being oppressed by themselves, just because they do not bother to raise to an occasion. AND THE BIGGEST CULPRITS ARE ALWAYS THE POLITICIANS WHO PLAY THE MINORITY CARD FOR THEIR VOTE BANKS. Sadly most of these politicians are Hindus, who do not think of the majority who suffer in their power play politics.
Here's an article in Outlook which recounts how a Hindu MP slapped a Muslim MP in Pakistan's National Assembly for religious slurring. It is really heartening to know that he had the guts to do such a thing. I hope the press gives more coverage to the other issues he raised - the abduction and forceful conversion of Hindu girls, unemployment etc.
I stared reading your article. But I stopped in the middle and decided to write my comment. I request you not to write these kinds of religious columns. India is crippled and is being crippled by our politicians because of these religious feelings and sentiments. You wrote this column based on incidents that happened to a Hindu and injustice done to him. At the same time, I can find an equal number of journalists who can write better columns stating injustice done to Muslims. Many of our honest and true Muslim brothers are now suffering punishment in the Western world just because every Muslim is placed in to in the background of terrorism. I believe in GOD but never believe in any religion or caste. Religion is just a belief and is established to celebrate and live life in a defined way. When educated people like you and write these kind of religious stuff and instigate these feelings among fellow citizens, this will help politicians to play more games and the people who suffer are the poor. I again personally request you to give up writing columns based on Religion.
I really liked your column. In the country Hindus are splintered and there is regionalism prevailing.
All the Semitic religions have their basis in the belief in One God and that is why they are organised. However instead of fanning the flames of intolerance why don't we do something about it and make the country a truly Hindu nation.
The confluence of ideas called Hindutva or the nomenclature of a Hindu has no respect because many Hindus are sneaky, conniving and cowardly. Everybody lives by commercial aims. TCS goes and teaches the Chinese for short-term marketing gains when our brand equity could be usurped by China in the long run.
If we are Hindus then we should do something about it and stand up for Hindus all throughout the country. Why don't we have a national organisation for Hindu interests.
Yo, You are obviously educated so I won't trip over stating the obvious. These liberals have no idea what dominance is and why it is necessary. Hindus need to establish dominance because we are the only group that can provide the country with order and authority. All minorities should be respected, obviously, and be generously given all rights - for that is the righteous Hindu thing to do. Muslim men understand by marginalizing and disenfranchizing women of power and position, they naturally extend the domain of their dominance. They smirk at the Hindu neo-liberal who empower the very group who would marginalize them at any oppurtunity. Look at any Muslim-owned business, the group mentality rife in Bollywood and observe the muslim families you meet. We have given the Muslims the benefit of the doubt because we don't know much about the ideology they live by; and we haven't bothered to look closely. Anyway that was my 2 cents.
It was interesting to read the article that has appeared in outlook (pointed out by another member here). How many Krishnan Bheel's can we see?
Sometime back I happen to read about "madha maatra thadai sattam (in english "law to prevent religion conversion"). I don't know where it is now. I happen to read a lot about as well visited once, the conversion that happened subsequent to the tsunami. A few thousands would have converted their religion after this natural disaster. Is anyone bothered?
When we are not able to prevent these conversion in India, then why to talk about the other parts in the world?
I personally believe that it is almost possible to make a Hindu behave like a Muslim. But a continuous long term education of Hindus can make them pragmatic and to understand the true nature of Islam and Christianity. We have to have "Buddhi" , "Paraakram" and pragmatic "Neeti".
Dear Rajeev...I cannot help thinking that you had drawn up a conclusion and went around looking for proof and subverting facts to prove you theory .
Well for starters , Kutty was kidnapped by robbbers and terrorists , Siju (or whatever) was taken in by American security forces who probably had no idea what they were doing , and naushad's case is with the govt of Saudi where there is a ghost of a chance for negotiation .Now all three lives are important just that circumstnaces surrounding them were different .It is the charming feature of a democracy that plights of minorities get highlighted .You make it appear as though all rules in India are against hindus .Let me give you an example ,in India there are reserations for Hindu Dalits ,but if the same dalit deicdes to change his religion to Islam or christianity he loses all the benefits .This is very much similar to the Arabian laws .
U ask where shabana and others are now ? Well where was vajpayee and co (the so called champion of hindus) when Kutty was held ? Where are they when Hindu activists convert westerners to hinduism ?
I feel sorry for writers like you who take up every single opportunity to pursue your own communal agenda .
Incidentally I am a christian and when I heard of Kutty's death ,I was moved to tears and until you pointed out I never thought of him as Hindu and neither did I know the guy held in Iraq was christian until you pointed out .
So what have you done for Kutty since you highlighted his plight so much ? If you ever saw the newspaper photographs there were catholic nuns comforting Kutty's family after the news of his death broke out .Now the likes of you ,RSS and VHP will never show up in such places but will deride the missionaries saying they were trying to convert Kutty's family .
I disagree with Rajeev. I'm a devout Hindu, but I just entirely disagree with the contents of the article.
Where the hell are the Hindus demanding that the govt do something to help Hindus who are in trouble?
If a Jew skins his knee, the enormous power of the Jewish community is brought to bear. The reason Hindu life is cheap is because HINDUS HAVE DEVALUED THEMSELVES.
It's not the fault of Christians or Muslims.
It's totally Hindus fault for:
1. Electing Agent Sonia Maino to decide if India will use nukes in the event of a war.
2. To turn the other way when Hindus are demonized and slaughtered.
3. To allow our society to decay.
I have so many Christian and Muslim friends who value Hindu life MORE THAN HINDUS!
Most of the Hindus in power are just looking for a meal ticket. As long as agent Sonia Maino gives them their Swiss Bank Accounts, some nice shiny trinkets, they're more than happy to seel their daughters.
If a white man skins his knee, then CNN will put it on the front pages. If 1000 Indians die in a flood, it makes page 22.
Why?
It's totally the fault of Hindus. What have Hindus done to uplift the plight of poorer Hindus? I'll tell you...they are laughing all the way to the bank at the poorer ones. I see this all the time.
Hindus have zero sense of "community". WE are our own worst enemy.
If all the Muslims and Christians left, would the plight of Hindus improve? Would Hindus still lack self-respect? Would Hindus still have self-hatred?
Excellent article......Rajeev Srinivasan is known to be ahard hitting person and this time too leaves no stone turned to get his point driven across.......
I also use this oppurtunity to request Rajeev Srinivasan and all other visitors to visit my infant blog at http://indianhotseat.blogspot.com/. The aim of this blog is to discuss all issues pertaining to India and in the long term actively involve all visitors to contribute articles strenghtening the rich diversity of the issues pertaining to India. Thank you very much
Congrats Rajiv for this hard-hitting analysis. More and more articles of this kind are necessary to bring out the TRUTH. The aparthied against the Hindus is a reality. Minorities are controlling a state like Kerala, at the cost of un-organised majority. Unless they organize and follow the teachings of the saints of our land , Hindus will continue taking their lives (suicide or convert).
A person had asked which Hindu organization has taken up Maniappan's issue. Hindu Aikyavedi leader Kummanam is meeting the President to expose the Govt's aparthied against Kutty's family. The family is yet to receive the pledged amounts from the govt. Infosys's 10 lakh is assured but not sure . Keralites are known to lack respect for army personnel, so not sure how many NGOs would come forward.
Aparthied and terror against the Hindus in Kerala is a daily ritual, especially against the backwards and Harijans. "If they cannot be converted, terrorize and humilate".
Following appeared in major dailies in Kerala within past 2-3 weeks:
1)Notorious rape case at the 'minority' run SME in Central Travancore by student predators (all minorities) and the susbsequent cover-up by the college authorities and their pimps in political fields
2)A tenth standard student is brutally ragged by 12th Standard 'minority' students and the subsequent cover-up attempt by the missionary-run school. (December first week)
3)Nithu, a Harijan student was abused by a teacher belonging to a minority faith in Sacred Heart school in Trissur (Kerala kaumudi, Dec 14, 2005). Nithu commited suicide after the teacher abused her harijan caste and SC/ST benefits! What if Nithu was a Christian? She would have lived probably.
4)A catholic priest in Muringoor divine center rapes and impregnates a poor harijan lady. State Women's commission confirms the case. Of course the cover-up attempts are strong here too.
UPA Govt to Impose Caste Quotas on Private Sector ==========
Hello Rajeev, your take on this please. I am not sure whether you would support this. I have an uneasy feeling about this. No, I am neither so called upper caste, nor so called lower caste.
"It is the charming feature of a democracy that plights of minorities get highlighted" Thank the majority for that. Governments are just trying to appease the minorities at the cost of the majority. Remember that too but why are these minorities always complaining and whining for more and more benefits? As a matter of fact, the same minorities were following the majority faith once!! Show equality.
"You make it appear as though all rules in India are against hindus .Let me give you an example ,in India there are reserations for Hindu Dalits ,but if the same dalit deicdes to change his religion to Islam or christianity he loses all the benefits.This is very much similar to the Arabian laws ."
Reservations were necessary to bring up the oppressed lot among the Hindus. According to Christians and Islamists, there are NO oppressed lot or caste discrimination among them. So why do they need reservations when a 'converted' soul is given honey, dollars and rice during the pouring of holy water? (In fact , even the dead is discriminated in certain monolithic religions.)
Let me ask you another question - What if a Hindu decides to start a school or college , say in a state like Kerala - (The capital of hindu suicides controlled by the minorities)? Is he allowed to give reservation benefits to the poor among his community? Is he allowed to teach Gita or Veda along with other subjects? Does he get any property tax benefits which is enjoyed by minorities?
I really hope Rajeev's articles would get published in vernacular press. It will guide the 'blind' tolerant lot.
I see that a whole lot of folks have supported your article. As for my opinion. I think your primary example is an incredibly subjective argument based on one example, and the article as a whole is a very divisive an dangerous piece of tripe that does nothing to support India's stand as a secular country. You seem to make enormous generalizations based on these four incidents. India has a lot more people than that Sir. I grew up in a small town, and personally, in day to day life I never, EVER witnessed an incident of discrimination based on religion though I've seen a lot of caste-based violence (from the looks of it, you seem to have never visited a rural area where close to 70% of the Indian, Hindu or otherwise population still lives). Please, please don't instigate/support one more issue to fight over. Religious intolerance has slowly been on the rise starting with the last BJP regime and we do NOT need articles like this, which only stimulate more hatred. There are injustices being done to all parties concerned thanks to a ridiculously ineffective and corrupt bureaucracy. The best thing we can do is to think sensibly and prevent these incidents from filling us with more hatred. What good did this article of yours do but to fuel the hatred of some of your readers? To a neutral viewer from the outside it looks like the hate spewed by an extreme, fundamentalist RSS writer.
You may say that your article is to shine some light on the injustices being done to Hindus. That is fine. I respect that. Your analysis of the situation however, is not objective. Look at both sides before you sow discord. There are some examples that you seem to have conveniently ignored. The rural so called 'low-caste' Hindus are still subjugated to such atrocious extents by the so-called 'higher class'. Several of these people (including tribals) choose to convert to Christianity to escape this severe caste-based oppression. Do you know what happened during the last BJP regime? Any christian organization (including churches, social workers, and even NGOs of noble intent), whether or not they were converting a Hindu got severely scrutinized, some Christian Priests and Sisters were even raped and murdered by these extremists. These so-called lower caste Hindus who converted to Christianity were mass converted back to Hinduism, back to their caste-based oppression. Does any government official EVER go to a Hindu School and verify that Christian/Muslim students are not being converted to Hinduism? NO!!! NNNOOOO!!! Most of this doesn't escape to the media, because everyone knows that the media in India is greatly influenced by the corrupt government officials in power during the time. These things are talked about, bitterly, at the churches, by friends and family of those afore-mentioned affected priests/sisters. You know nothing of this Sir, and you are definitely not in a position to write such a strongly worded article on a widely-read form of media as the web. Please don't try to instigate hate. Please Stop this immediately. We're in the 21st Century. We shouldn't be allowing the devil to run away with our sensibility. We have to think of the long term consequences of each of our actions/propaganda. There is only a thin line dividing this article of yours and what's being taught by the Taliban. I'm really sorry to be so critical, but yours is unfortunately the trend that's becoming more and more widespread in India in the last decade and there are so many of us who can only watch, helplessly.
You seem to make enormous generalizations based on these four incidents.
Heard of Cat calling a kettle black ?
Please don't try to instigate hate. Please Stop this immediately.
Yea right , Mr. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi !!
There is only a thin line dividing this article of yours and what's being taught by the Taliban
Wow ! So much for a grand conclusion on a great analysis.
whether or not they were converting a Hindu got severely scrutinized, some Christian Priests and Sisters were even raped and murdered by these extremists.
Influence of Times of India very much palpable SIR !
Look at both sides before you sow discord.
Yea , because i will look only to one side and always believe it to be true come what may.
... ROTFL.. Any prizes for guessing who this latest SECULAR bleeding-heart on the forum is ?
With all the noble thoughts you have expressed, I wonder - why did you choose to call yourself "Beelzebub" ?! (which is actually a name for Satan!). Just curious... You could have chosen "Buddha" or something like that...:-)
Anyway, I'm just writing to say that I dont think Rajeev wrote the article to incite/instigate hatred.
I think he wrote it draw attention to something he is very concerned about, and to create dialog on the subject, and to get readers' thoughts and solutions, and to spread awareness.
Regardless of what his opinion is, if you notice, he isnt deleting anybody's comments (except one, which must have been an indecent one). All kinds of views from different people are being presented. This is a very open discussion.
i dont agree with what u say on the cause of Maniappan kutty's death!! as someone already has mentioned, in the cases 2/3/4 there were parties to contact and negotiate with! not with taliban..... pls dont bring in the issue of religion into this and EVERY OTHER THING in this world!! unless people like you shed this religion/caste based thoughts/arguments our nation wont prosper in any way!!! am surprised and SHOCKED that rediff published this article!! I am a Keralite and a Hindu and i do feel bad and sorry for what happened to Maniappan kutty and do accept its wrong on the Govt's part to have not taken more initiative but wud be only MAD to accept that it was coz he was a Hindu!!!
What do you think of the Vatican hiding an internationally-wanted War Criminal like General Ante Govina, who murdered large numbers of civilians during the Yugoslav civil war? He killed a lot more people than an Australian priest and his 2 sons.
What do you think about the fact that the Ayodhya mosque was built on top of someone else's place of worship?
Why don't you show us some video of the sexual harassment? Charges are easy to make, and they are certainly a useful tool for whipping up macho honor.
Why not also talk about proselytization by advantaged first world cultures against vulnerable 3rd world cultures?
You seem to define demographic boundaries according to your own whims and desires, when in fact there are a myriad of ethnic groups in India, each of which can be considered minorities, rather than just your own.
Do you feel that ethnic groups other than Christians have the right to be socially and politically cohesive, or does that only apply to Christians?
Hi Rajeev You have written an excellent article. I can only agree with you. When will the servile hindus of Kerala learn their lesson. Are they content by being relegated to the fringes of society by the minorities. Do they have a say in anything in Kerala. Why are they and their votes so hopelessly sub-divided and fragmented. Why are the Ezhavas/Thiyyas still voting for the leftists. Didnt their guru advise them to organize themselves. SHAME on the KERALA HINDUS - they have accepted servility as a way of life. It is high time that the Maniappan episode open their eyes and view for themselves how they are being utilised. Cant they see the enthusiasm of the politicians in the Naushad episode (with due concern at his fate) which was totally missing in the case of Maniappan. If the Ezhavas and Nairs of Kerala unite they can become a formidable force - But will they. Or will they be content with heaping hosannas at St Sonia Maino's feet or eulogise the leftists. I am glad that people like Rajeev are taking cudgels on behalf of the Hindus. We need to organise ourselves to unmask and obliterate the forces who are endangering hindus and hinduism. May your tribe increase.
Hi Rajeev, Kudos to u for writing such an article.Its a fact that Hindus are the worst affected in India and the world over. I am a firm beleiver in Secularism and true nationalist at heart . I ve been to Kerela and i ve seen the pathetic state of Hindus there in the hands of christian majority.I went to stay in my friends place in Alleppey who happens to be a christian. they bought a new home and in its garden there was a Tulsi ka ped as it was a hindu home previously.My friends father received dictates and threats from the local church to demolish that structure . But being an ardent nationalist he did not do so and had to go thru many embarrasing questions. And beleive it or not but we Hindus are ourseleves responsible for this horrible state of ours- 1.We r not at all united.The congress has been successfully diving us on the lines of caste and language. 2.We Hindus beleive and respect every religion. Our religion teaches us that there r many ways to reach God. Dont u go to a church or the mazaar of a fakir and respect and pray with same devotion as u go to a temple? But tell me how many muslims and christians go to our temples or celebrate our festivals with that devotion? I ve seen christians refusing to play holi as they say that color is not to be used in their religion. This is because their religion beleives in monoethism-one God .they say only thier way is the only way and no other way is their to acheive God. This very fact is against secularism. 3. When something happens to Muslims or Chiristains hell is raised in this country.Tell me how many hindus can do that same thing in Pakistan or BanglaDesh or any Arab country. Where goes that cry of equality and secularism?When minorities want equality then why they turn a blind eye towards uniform civil code? We Hindus have suffered and will always suffer bcoz we r weak. Thousand of years of inactivity and passiveness has snatched from us our strength.We seldom stand against injustice done to our own people.We r so much engrossed in our regionalism and language that we overlook our religion. My parents were from Bangladesh. They had to flee that place bcoz they were hindus and weak. I was born in India . We have to stop this appeasement and be so strong so that we dont have to again leave this country .
It is very true that Hindus visit all places of worship, even non- Hindu ones, and I think they also generally wish Christians on Xmas and Muslims on Id.
But the reverse isnt quite true. You dont often find the latter wishing Hindus on their religious festivals. My family has had an Xian neighbour for years. If I find her around Christmas time, I wish her. She has never wished us on any Hindu occasion, although we stop for a chat once in way.
And I dont remember any Christian wishing us for any festival last many years. It's not important for them.
I do feel compelled to write something about my own experiences relating to abrahamic religions. 1)In hospitals run by christians(I know a few)people get treatment for their medical problems.At the same time they are offered a choice that they can get free treatment and other freebies if they(including whole families if possible) convert to christianity. 2)My friend was working in a christian hospital.Her mother used to come to pick her on the way from work.She was befriended by a nun in the hospital who followed her for a few weeks.Soon she was bombarded with messages of love christ and all positives in christianity etc and negative aspects about hindu life and religion.Her mother started talking about christ etc at home and was wrecking peace in the family.To safe guard her mother from predatory influences of nun from the hospital,she resigned listing out the reasons.Of course nothing happened to the nun.Her mother is now back to normal as a hindu. 3)This happened in the medical college as told to me by my friend. Two students-one hindu and the other christian were studying in the same medical college.They were close to each other since childhood.The christian soon developed the idea to convert the hindu as he found that the hindu did not show much interest in religion.He asked him to visit the church, read bible,stories of christ etc and many other small things which brought about the christianity in full force and showed hindu religion in bad light.The unsuspecting hindu trusting his christian friend of many years converted to christianity.He hid it from his family and friends for sometime.Somehow his friends found out his conversion and questioned him.He told all that happened.They confronted the christian person and asked him to desist from such activities.He initially refused,but the friends had to use the threat of force, than he agreed to stop influencing unsuspecting hindus.
1.Burning an Australian priest and in son to death inside a car in orissa?
2.Demolition of Ayodhya Mosque which was treated like a national achievement by the 3rd rate cheap idiots in India?
3.Sexual Harassement of Nuns and women priests in Orrissa, Bihar and Gujart?
4.Demolition of churches in Gujarat? =========
Does Secularism mean : 1. Freedom for Conversion of people of other religion by force, murder, bribe and loot.
2. Freedom to grab land and destroy temples (Kerala)
3. Freedom to arm terrorists to kill innocents. (Nagaland)
4. Freedom to call (slander) Hindus idol-worshippers, ritualistic and caste discriminators, while continue to do the same yourself ( You are as much idol worshippers as we are, as much ritualistic (baptisms, holy water, silver spoons, etc) as we are and you are as much discriminatory as we are. ).
Take your secularism to the chor bazaar and see if you can find any buyers willing to pay 2 pennies for it.
Flemming has understood the concept of secularism perfectly. We know that when the freedom of missionaries to offend all other religions fanatically is a right conferred by the organized mafias, possibly operating in church and the killers? Apparently such men of love colluded to massacre either of tutsis or hutus in millions in 1990s. But I agree with Flemming, how could secularism mean destroying national monuments of India like the Babri Mosque at Ram Janmabhumi ? Did Jesus taught pure hatred to demean and desecrate all the places of worships that doesn't come into the organized mafia of church ? Otherwise how did Babr's descretion is a monument ? DO you guys tell such stuff in west to raise funds ? Oh Boy, they killed a white christian. The point is value of a white christian is billion dollars in terms of fund raising from the church ! The unfortunate incident involving insenstive missionaries asides, should we be forced to agree that , the missionaries never conspired to loot and destroy civillizations ?
Fleming, if it makes to raise money using the sexual harassment case then shame on you, one of the cases was popular and that was proved to be a fraud. May be a father raped her later. We wouln't know such stuff. These rapes happen in churches.
----- U misunderstood the concept of secularism.. Does Secularism mean..
1.Burning an Australian priest and in son to death inside a car in orissa? 2.Demolition of Ayodhya Mosque which was treated like a national achievement by the 3rd rate cheap idiots in India? 3.Sexual Harassement of Nuns and women priests in Orrissa, Bihar and Gujart? 4.Demolition of churches in Gujarat? ---------------------------
It was reported in a malayalam daily that, when Maniappan's family contacted the Keralite external affiars minister (E Ahamed of Muslim league, the party of Jinnah), he was talking to his friends in Middle east . He never bothered to talk to kutty's father instead his secy talked. Ahamed responds after 24 hrs , when Taliban had initially given 48 hrs time!
What if Rahul Gandhi was the victim instead of the commoner Maniappan?
To the person who defined secularism - In Kerala catholic priests have raped and killed nuns and none of these priests have been punished. They are freed whenever the Congress (christian controlled). The present christist CM, Oomen Chandy has shown undue interest to manipulate the evidence of a sensational case and free the priest who killed Sister Abhaya and dumped her body in a well.
"Re: Beelzebub (a name for Satan.. Hah! Thanks for the edification. You opened my eyes)". I anticipated some kind of irrelevant comment directed to my user name. I fail to see how my user name becomes anyone's business and how it is even remotely related to any discussion. A guy doesn't have to call himself Buddha to talk sense. It's just a NAME! Get over yourself. Would your domain of discussion be restricted only to the works of Wordsworth and Shakespere just because you call yourself daffodils or daisies? No. Coming back to the points you make... I do appreciate them and the fact that the article has been put out there to collect public opinion. There's no harm with that. It's just that articles related to sensitive topics like caste and religion should be written with some objectivity. That is not the case here. This article has taken on a totally lop-sided perspective instead of rising above the situation and taking an egalitarian view of all concerned parties. If an article takes sides so blatantly, all it will do is promote acrimonious, sentimental comments. There are a lot of unstable individuals reading what's on the internet these days and you don't want them reading material like this. The least you can do is to tell them the entire truth. What the author says may be true.. I'm not accusing him of slander (nor am I berating your comments). All I'm trying to say is that if you hide the reality of what's happening to the muslims and christians (like the heinous, unchecked attacks on muslims in the gujarat riots and the attacks on priests and nuns in Bihar and Orissa), you are not providing enough material for an open, fair discussion.
You really need a brain checkup and attitude checkup.
I sent you a friendly comment, and a compliment for your noble thoughts, and only stating my wonder about your name, which as far as I knew from my knowledge of synonyms, is a name of Satan.
Who cares what name you or I choose ? It makes no difference to me or anyone. It was your views that mattered.
Your response is so arrogant and unfriendly!!!
Hence, this time around, I SURE DID NOT BOTHER TO READ YOUR VIEWS !!!!!!
Just for everybody's information, since this commentator has taken so much offence about my harmless remark, I verified from Webster's dictionary: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beelzebub One entry found for Beelzebub.
Main Entry: Beel·ze·bub Pronunciation: bE-'el-zi-"b&b, 'bEl-zi-, 'bel- Function: noun Etymology: Beelzebub, prince of devils, from Latin, from Greek Beelzeboub, from Hebrew Ba'al zebhubh, a Philistine god, literally, lord of flies 1 : DEVIL 2 : a fallen angel in Milton's Paradise Lost ranking next to Satan
@ Daisies. My apologies. It was an honest misunderstanding this time. Let's not divert the course of the discussion. If you'd read down to my views your fury might've been mitigated since I'd appreciated your explanation. However, it is my fault that you didn't read further.
The article served its purpose where we stop and think for a minute what is happening to our religion. And that minute turned out to be a full hour deep thought!.
Well, first of all, how is it that the politicians able to exploit the minorities using religion as a carrot? How is it that Laloo Yadav was in power for 15 years? How is it that out of 1 billion people, we had SONIA GANDHI coming so close to becoming a prime minister? The answer to all questions lies in EDUCATION. And the ray of hope still exists. As more and more youngsters are educated, hopefully they will value their vote more than a bottle of country liquor.
And now for the wounds within. Most of the hindus are made to believe that RSS is an organization that they shouldnt associate themselves with. And most of them want to stay away...why? because the common Hindu dont even know whats going on. Who is to blame? The ignorant hindu or the RSS which doesnt want to publicize the activities saying 'we dont believe in showing off'... it was only when I went to an RSS meeting that I realized what activities that are they do.... and now I am proud that I went to the meeting. Now I can say for sure that RSS is not what its portrayed. But the awareness among RSS and other orgs is very low. Its because of our nonchalent attitude.
As a global phenomenon, religion as a way of life has been losing out on significance... Forget Hindu religion, the Indian (Indian way of life is anyway the Hindu way of life) way of life and culture itself is losing out.. It is a shame that world over we have Yoga classes being conducted at premium prices where back home we are flooding the gyms. Its a shame that we are hiding the Indian identities in Call centers and identify hindus as Lucia and George. Its a shame that we, the hindus, have been reduced to a divided community where the divide is increasing and so is the wealth of the heads on top of our hindu heirarchy.
Its time to act, and start acting at home, by making sure the children learn about our history (the way they should), and ensure that they know the vedas and Bhagavat Gita.. Lets make sure we contribute towards the development of the lower castes so that there would be no reason for them to get converted to any other religion. Lets stop the blame game and act. Let's for once start it ourselves in our own small way.
I think Thought Revolution makes an excellent point when he says "Development of the lower castes so that there would be no reason for them to get converted to any other religion". That is precisely the problem. These so called 'lower castes' in the rural areas appear to change their religion just because they see no better way for improvement. Education is also a key issue that has to be addressed, however the educational schemes of the government don't seem to be so effective since they don't normally trickle down to the rural masses, and consequently aren't as impressive as they sound on paper.
This is sad reflection of the petty mindedness of certain individuals. Does Mr. Rajeev realize that 4 such random incidents can be picked up about any community and posted as some kind of sensational post? This is a shame on journalism, at its worst.
How come he doesn't speak of the millions of people dying each day and suffering injustice irrespective of their religion? What about the nuns being murdered and raped? What about innocent children being slaughtered? Do you, Mr. Author have the guts to descend out of your high pedestal and see the world for the pathetic state it is in?
I do not expect this post to be published because I'm not going to flatter this author. I think people like him is what's wrong with society today.
First of all the author is highlighting the apathy of the Govt. of the day, towards its citizenry. Secondly he is highlighting that this apathy is selective. Thirdly he is citing examples of this selective pattern of discrimination that is endemic in our society. Yes there are many challenges facing our society which is not included in this article, simply because this article was only to deal with one subject, selective discrimination against Hindus, period. So let us not confuse other readers and participants with rants about caste, selective and unsubstantiated cases of "minority" bashing, etc., and distract others by unwarranted flames and innuendos or unrelated events. I suggest we read the article with a modicum of decency and with a sense of objectivity -- if this apathy by the Govt. against certain section of society is wrong then we must acknowledge that boldly, whatever our religious or personal preferences. We cannot allow our narrow biases (often indoctrination of hate from an early age) to stand in our way of reason and plain logic.
So let us debate intelligently and arrive at a consensus that will help at reforming our society to feel pride in all sections of our society, our nation, and our heritage, and of our current and past contributions to this world. Let us learn from our (including our own present prejudices and our own ancestors' atrocities) own mistakes from our history (we have to face up to our past squarely, not just selectively our immediate past in Gujarat, but also of the holocausts by Christian colonial regimes, maurading Islamists, the shameless missionary cabal's activities, caste discrimination, etc.) -- past is a good reference for our future actions; we can learn what we did wrong, and what we did right (again not selectively by hollistically). Let us reform ourselves and I am sure that will have a positive effect around us.
Let us not bash the messenger but keenly observe the details presented to understand the chanllenges faced by our society today. If we do not take corrective actions, we shall leave a mess for our children and thiers!!
This just goes to show that any thought process however idiotic, may be rationalised. What is with people that they always have this "poor me" mentality and want to prove themselves superior. If its not religion, its something else. As far as this post is concerned, like all your other posts it is ridiculous ..
This post is inaccurate on many grounds. You have picked up 4 incidents, and have co-related the facts reaching bizarre conclusions.
Injustice is being committed in all parts of the world and fortunately or unfortunately that has nothing to do with any ONE religion. And the government is ineffective in all these cases. Remember the bombay riots? Or how a train of hindu pilgrims is burnt? How a certain missionary was murdered and chopped to pieces?
If a person's faith is strong, conversion doesn't work. So rather than pointing fingers, try to learn more about your own faith whatever it might be and take good from it.
Please do not belittle the importance of life or pain as it happens universally. And please grow up, if you can.
Dissent and voicing an opinion is the hallmark of democracy. If vocal folks go to the USA (which many believe to be a champion of democracy and free speech), what is wrong? The irony (and frankly the biggest, cruelest joke) is sitting in India, and despite claiming to be part of a secular polity, the insecular groups beat down on the inherently secular group, for subversive politico-religious gains -- all in the name of secularism!! Muslim, Christian and atheist groups, openly claiming (in fact named as) to be religious or marxist/maoist are claiming they are secular (an 'minority'), all the time embarking on insecular activities -- now that is food for thought!!
There was one nun who lodged a false complain, nothing was proved from the complaint. The christians converted most by financial power, the hindus protested with misinformation around there was news of a nun.
WHy not reader talk of christists who support terrorism ? What about innocent chrildren killed with christist support ? Are they not humans ? That was the topic raised in the article. Brave article indeed . I am sure the other is gentle enough to be distracted by such comments as problems of society. Such denunciation would work for raising armies of forest dwellers who don't understand that the jokers and sepoys.
How come he doesn't speak of the millions of people dying each day and suffering injustice irrespective of their religion? What about the nuns being murdered and raped? What about innocent children being slaughtered? Do you, Mr. Author have the guts to descend out of your high pedestal and see the world for the pathetic state it is in?
I do not expect this post to be published because I'm not going to flatter this author. I think people like him is what's wrong with society today.
Readers says 4 incidents don't generalize, fine. But Mt Rajeev has agreed that he sometimes learns from the marxist and sepoy techniques to hold a mirror to them. Somebody either found a skull or didn't find it in some excavation in Harappa. That proved a theory from which none could deviate, the sepoy secularist wouldn't complain about thousand generalization from nothing.
The sad part is the secularist wouldn't try to gain knowledge. The reader who wrote the following cites a false complaint or may be another to disporove Rajeev ! That is the real petty mindedness ! Such petty minds doesn't deserve more.
This is sad reflection of the petty mindedness of certain individuals. Does Mr. Rajeev realize that 4 such random incidents can be picked up about any community and posted as some kind of sensational post?
From what I read in the article - Rajeev is criticizing the Indian politicians for not dealing with people fairly based on their being human beings. Is there anything wrong with that? Why are people getting so paranoid and saying that he has criticized entire communities - is it a guilty conscience?
Also here is a statement by a "trye Muslim" - go argue with him
"Aren't you aware that the model for us all, the Prophet Mohammed and the four rightful caliphs, undertook to murder infidels as one of their primary activities, and that the Prophet waged jihad operations 77 times in the first 10 years as head of the Muslim community in Medina?"
Cannot imagine that you found secularism in that. You should have thought that these incidents happened in different countries where the cultures and attidudes defer. I agree that our ministers and polititians were lazy in acting. But we should not suspect the role of religion involved. Thats not fair.
In response to Richa's post, some nutcase called kaplak damir waded through the sea of mediocrity and blurted : >>>> When did Shabana and Teesta support Sharia? They and Javed Akhtar about as anti Sharia as anyone. And why should they or any one else protest about the treatment of Indians(Hindu or otherwise) in another country when they are slaughtered here in India? If you think Hindu life is precious, why did you not write about the Hindu from IIM killed by other Hindus in Bihar? Or Jhajjar, where were the bleeding hearts of RSS/ BJP when dalits were butchered? Or is Hindus murdering Hindus is ok? And what about the appalling show of cowardice by relatives of the hostages of IC814? Their morchas had nothing to do with the CPI or anybody. ===========
Shabana and akhtar are in support of Sharia. Why do they support the muslim personal law then.
Well, then they should also not protest the killing of jehadis in iraq and afghanistan, and plead for support from us Hindus. Well you may find a**holes like Nutwar supporting them, but dont expect us to be sympathetic. Khilafat was a mistake for which we are paying till now. Why should we be bothered about iraq and afghanistan when jehadis are killing fellow muslims too in kashmir. :))
We do condemn the killing of the IIM Grad, Manjunath, by killers in Bihar. But mind you, the reasons were not because he was Hindu, but it was because he came to know of sale of adulterated petrol by the killers. Killing in the name of jehad/prosletyzation is what we are against. A criminal is a criminal, and he doesnt think that he is killing a fellow Paki, a fellow Arab, or a fellow Hindu, or a fellow Christian.
>>Or is Hindus murdering Hindus is ok?
Hindus dont kill Hindus in the name of religion
>>>And what about the appalling show of cowardice by relatives of the hostages of IC814?
What about the appalling show of cowardice by jehadis in Gujarat, crying on tv and papers, shouting "atyachaar", holding candle light vigils, taking out morchas, etc, where 40% of those killed were Hindus.
klapak, please read up a bit on the real situation, before you cry like the so called secularists ( jehadists ??) do.
Dear "first" Human being, here's the thing: I read most of my India specific news through Google News India. Now now, I know you are all grown up and all (going by your advice to people to join the grown up club and all) but for the other 'bacchas' on this blog, the way Google News works is by displaying the most relevant stories being posted on important websites (pertaining to a subject). This source therefore gives you a gist of the news important websites are publishing related to India in an unbiased manner.
For anyone watching these stories develop there over the last one month it was really vanilla plain that the Maniappan story didn't even figure nearly one-tenth as prominently as compared to the other two stories. Especially noticable was the absense of grovelling of big, powerful Union Ministers in case of Maniappan.
I noticed this bias a couple of weeks back (and Sir Mr. Grown Up that means BEFORE 'little' Rajeev who needs to 'grow up' wrote this article).
Can I now come join the 'Grown Up' club (the pre-condition, though, is that you must leave the club first "Human being first")
That is precisely the intent of the article, to highlight the organized religion perpetrated horror in Bharath. There are very devious forces in play, organized under religious banners (read Muslim and Christian), ideological banners (read Marxists and Maoists) -- these have combined to forge a strong alliance of evil that will destroy the very core cultural values and principles of India based on democracy, liberty, freedom, justice, much of these from Sanatana Dharma, which was a tradition that enveloped all communities within Bharath, and had a mellowing effect on even foreign ideologies such as Islam and Christianity. Now these refugees have taken over the country and now claiming that they have the right to enslave, control, proliferate and destroy -- not all are bad but the ones who can make the difference are bad and that is trouble, trouble for all that is!! This axis of evil, namely the commie, mullah, padre combine are really partners in crime against humanity. Using constitutional and legal loopholes, and playing vote bank politics, they have successfully managed to control the opinion making centers, such as education, journalism and politics -- thay this combine is controling India today is really the anxiety for Hindus in particular and should for Indians in general. However barring the segment of Hindus who can see the coming of the crusades, all others are blissfully (in the case of indifferent Hindus) and wilfully (in the case of the so called moderate 'minorities' as they benefit from this) participating in the implosion of a civilization -- all from within. Forces are eating away at the very entrails of the mother that nutured and provided refuge and that mother could perhaps be the mother of all modern civilizations (we are seeing the trends in genetics) and as Mark Twain surmised! If we kill our mother and despise our own bretheren in the interest of foreign interests, then no power in nature will pardon us. Our children and thiers will pay for our follies today! It is a shame that we see this artile through the prism of communalism. Here is one episode in the Mahabaratha: A brahmin, a kshatriya, a vaisya and a shudra collude to commit a murder and Yudhistra gives the punishment as follows. The shudra should be imprisoned for 2 years (because he was ignorant), the vaisya should get 4 years (instead of being a provider he partcipated), the kshatriya should get 8 years (instead of being a protector he participated) and the brahmin 16 years (instead of being the counselor against the crime he participated). So that is what the meaning of this article is, that having come from such a just tradition, we have now transformed into a demonizing, canniving, subversive, manipulating and shameless society! Yes caste problems also need to look closely at the Mahabaratha story but that is for another thread and for all Hindus. Similarly the 'minorities' would do well to fix thier own house! As for the commies, the less said the better!
Is any one other than a Hindu feels ashamed just because non-members of his/her religion wants him.her ashamed ? Are Kashmiri (INDIAN) muslims ashamed that they have conducted a near complete GENOCIDE of Indian hindus in Kashmir valley ?
Sending people on guilt trip in order to further its own goals is well-known and very profitable strategy for organised religion. Church still uses it to collect money, which is used for spritual/physical terrorism against Hindus in India. Are you aware that one terrorist group in INDIA, TNLF is entirely made up of Christists ?
Never fall in the guilt trip if you have not done any wrong. If your community does any wrong, then you can do whatever you want, including trying to make people listen your point of view. Ofcourse this is a luxury you don't have in some organised cult, which passes for religion in india. People are known to behave in irrational ways when they have it.
--------------------------------------- what have i done to deserve this shame? why am i a hindu?
75 comments:
Dear Rajeev,
I follow your writings in Rediff. I think you made your point very well and the analysis with statistics is stunning. Do keep writing more!
More about me canbe found at www.arunhere.com and my tamil blog is at http://arunhere.com/pathivu. (I donno whether you know tamil or not).
Good job!
Love,Arun Vaidyanathan
Dear Rajeev,
I totally agree with you. I had written about blood money & plight of Hindus in Saudi Arabia on my blog a few days ago.
I agree with your articles...read them regularly.
Regards,
Sonali
Hi Rajeev,
Agree with you all the way. You are few of those voices which are clear to the point with logics and reasonings all embedded.
Hope we get more writers like you who can awaken the ignorants to organise themselves and make things right.
My condolences for the kutty family. This is so damn depressing news. Wish and hope there are funds to help this family overcome hardships.
keep us all updated.
thank you.
Rajeev Srinivasan is back with a bang !! What a hard hitting article. Rajeev's views are reflective of the current scenario.
To add to the conversion debate let me quote a gentleman named Raj (http://o3.indiatimes.com/Harsh_reality/archive/2005/12/05/355514.aspx):
Whats common between Shahrukh Khan, Aamir Khan, Fardeen Khan, Zayad Khan, Azim Premji's son Rishad Premji, Saif Ali Khan, Naseeruddin Shah, Amjad Ali Khan, Muzaffar Ali, Ayub Khan, Arbaaz Khan, Sohail Khan, Aziz Mirza, Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi, Suhaib Ilyasi (allegedly killed his Hindu wife), Sajid Nadiadwala (allegedly killed his Hindu wife Divya Bharathi), Arshad Warsi, Abu Salem, Mohd. Azharuddin, Saeed Naqvi, Dawood Ibrahim, Tamil Superstar Ajit, Salman Khan's dad Salim Khan, Talat Aziz and Fareed Zakariya.
All these Muslim gentlemen married Hindu (or other non Muslim) girls (sometimes more than once) and converted them to Islam. They are thus assured of a place in Heaven (Jannat) !! RABID CONVERTERS !!
How come Muslim celebrities always end up marrying and converting Hindu girls ?
INDEED THE WORTH OF A HINDU LIFE IS VERY LITTLE !!
Facts with implied reasonings always opens the door to varied interpretations Rajeev. Yes I will agree with you that most majorities get the short end of the stick in an attempt to placate the minority.
But let us also face facts, it is a Hindu majority which seeks to quieten its own. The incident in issue has no religious tie to it. What it does smack of is, how people without a voice are generally ignored. Yes! Minorities have representation. They create it so they can be heard. What prevents us Rajeev from representing people such as Mr.Kutty. His plight is repeated across our country. The problem is not religion or minorities. The issue to be focussed on is this-"How do we empower the average everyday Indian to make his voice heard". There lies the solution. Something we can all seek to work towards.
Referring to ourselves as "oppressed Hindus" or "Christian fundamentalists" or "Muslim Converters" only drives the wedge of division deeper and make it more painful. We, who have been given the right to reach the masses around us live in a glass house of moral responsibilty.
The life of a human is precious.
Rajeev,
Four incidents and their results do not calculate life of a hindu person. I do agree that politicians become more active when its comes to saving or helping minorities for they gain name among minorities.
But What would do say when muslims were sloughtered in Gujarat and police and govt just watched that happen?
We should be more worried about the plight of poor and lower middle class people without contacts. Not about what religion these people belonged to.
I do agree that politicians become more active when its comes to saving or helping minorities for they gain name among minorities.
----thats exactly what Rajeev is saying in his article.
We should be more worried about the plight of poor and lower middle class people without contacts. Not about what religion these people belonged to
---I am sure Rajeev is also worried about them...but this article is not about poverty issues...Rajeev is worried about Politicians worrying about (poor or otherwise) Indian's religion rather than treating each case on its merit. His article highlights the hypocrisy of Manmohan Singh govt & their apathy towards Hindus.
Rajeev,
I answered on ur behalf...but couldnt resist it. correct me if I am wrong.
Sonali
You are talking nonsense. Who would you have negotiated a release with? How do you contact the Taliban? Do they have an embassy through which you can send your protests? The only channel was the media, which, to be fair, was used.
In all other cases you mentioned, there was an 'authority' to which you could appeal/ negotiate/ plead/ beg/ demand/ issue demarche to.
PS: Irrelevant to this topic, but importantly, I am a Hindu.
And, yes, I endorse chakding's opinion.
Hi Rajeev,
Whatever you have mentioned is a matter of fact. However, the levels of left intellectualism in our country have grown to such heights that most dont even realize that the issues that you pointed out are infact happening, let alone that more than often, they happen through sinister design.
The Hindu population of this country has been brainwashed after independence to hate ourselves and look outside for examples. The population has even been made to forget that once upon a time (and for an extremely long time in history), Hindus set the stage for anything at all that happened in the world. So much of effort has been taken to even keep our true history from us. As a consequence, children are being taught in history class that barbaric rulers (who by the way managed to rule India only because of the weakening of Hinduism accompanied with a ton of internal feuds) who killed literally millions of Hindus in the name of religion were good and just rulers. We are being made to forget our ancient and illustrous system of education and follow a British one. I say all the above because I feel that they are fundamental to the issue that you have discussed. Your article is an extremely important one and should serve to make people think in the right direction to stand up and defend Hinduism without any of this plague of pseudo mindedness and rabid left leaning thoughts. To this end, I feel you should write more articles detailing the true history of the vedic civilization and its might and how it served as a guiding light to the entire world in the past. It is my sincere hope that you do not give up on this task and continue to provide readers with more insights into what is happening in the name of minority rights and anything at all that is anti-Hindu.
Of all the nations in the world, India is not one where minorities need any representation because the majority is a Hindu population. They will naturally be treated well and that is not something they can find anywhere on this planet.
It is time we stood up and did something about all attorcities against Hinduism or we will face the axe again in the name of religion.
Warmest regards,
pulse
Hi Rajiv,
It is not a question of "value of Hindu life in India" but rather a question
of "value of an Indian life in India or elsewhere". If India were a power like the US
no Indian (Hindu, Muslim or of any other faith) would be mistreated in another
country.
From what I understand Indian and Indonesian Muslims are not treated same as Arabs
in these despotic hell holes.
Many Indians die horrible deaths in India for completely unecessary/prevantable
causes. What the media or politicians focus on and make a big deal out of is of
little value to the family of an Indian who has died a cruel death in India or in some
other despotic country.
The post clearly highlights social divisions created by politicians -- this is the real wedge that needs to be removed, which can only be removed by those communities that are enjoying the benefits of the generous attention they are receiving from these politicians. But then when organized religion colludes with politics and commercial interests, no amount of reasoning will help!! In fact it is the lack of reasoning that is the cause of the majority bashing. If we all believe that we are Indians first then how can we allow divisions between us? If we all really feel that we are from this soil how can we owe allegiance to an external party (be it political or religious) -- that is precisely where the danger is, allegiance to external vested interests.
Yes we Indians have to respect and show complete regard for our own citizenry, and not take internal affaris to the UN and the US human rights commision -- that is where we lose our respect.
Let each religion fix the flaws in their own communities and not point a finger at the other, with a holier than thou attitude. That is where we will gain self-respect.
Most importantly let us stop this business of religious conversion, that is an act of vested interest that splits families, friends, and brings miseries to many future generations and eventually will bring the crusades to our own doorsteps -- a deja vu! We need humanism and not these neo-religionist saviours!!
We need to break the nexus between the organized religion, politicians and commercial interests -- something that the Bible warns about as the axis of evil.
I agree with you that indian government does not value human life. On the other hand, I do not agree with your conclusion that the difference in behavior on the part of indian government was only because of them following different religions. Based on your presentation of the 4 cases, I do not think that all other conditions were the same. Are all the 4 cases have the same education background or financial background or the same social background.
Good job in highlighting the issue.
Probably India may the only country in world where majority people are suppressed by themselves. I won’t blame External affairs minister because he is Muslim, it is the fault of each and every Hindu for not taking any responsibility, not being united, supporting Congress, SP, RJD and other political parties which declares they are for minorities and giving special treatment to them and allowing illegal immigrants from Bangladesh for vote bank. I fully support Rajeev and appreciate his efforts in highlighting the problems.
If a Hindu was killing there won’t be any mention of religion or caste but if a minority was killing in fight then media will bring up his religion though it is no way connected to his religion. It is the attitude of Hindu’s which needs to be changed.
Most of the politicians, officials, media persons who back minorities are Hindus. I still remember the days after burning Stains (Australian) where simple disputes between two persons where shown as attacks on minorities, wide protests about nun rapes in MP where nothing had happened at all. Around 40% of Godhra aftermath victims are Hindus but shown as entire Muslim community is Gujarat is washed out and attacks were done by Hindus alone. What a biasing by Hindus towards Hindus.
After Godhra I had see many people arguing it is all because Hindus in train gave slogans in railway station and went into an argument with local Muslims else that incident might not have happened. If Hindus can justify burning live other Hindus just because they bad mouthed Tea vendor in railway station who is Muslim in a small town then no one can save them.
Dear Rajiv
I am reading your article on rediff. I am happy to know that at least there are handful of people who really bother about the lives of Hindus. In this country all politicians jsut think about minoriteis but in a true sense now Hindus are minorities. Noone bothers them.
Very nice article. Please keep on writing more.
All the best.
amit
Dear Rajiv
I am reading your article on rediff. I am happy to know that at least there are handful of people who really bother about the lives of Hindus. In this country all politicians jsut think about minoriteis but in a true sense now Hindus are minorities. Noone bothers them.
Very nice article. Please keep on writing more.
All the best.
amit
Hi Rajeev,
I am a new visitor to your blog. Found and read your article at rediff with some interest. The facts mentioned and the supporting info. given does beckon onething. The world will see a major battle by the name "religion".
The word "world" will be so big when we look at it from a distance. The same world will become very narrowed, if an instance happens in our family, wherein we find the problem within a street / town / city.
What else to say here? It's really an end which people are approaching fast. An end which is predicted in the vedhas and Gita. I do hope the same is being specified in other holy books (of other religions, without malafied interpretations).
I am at present in the GCC and could see the spate of life of an indian here. Let me first look at a person as an indian and then further. People are treated like slaves here... They work night and day and earn a few thousands (indian rupees). There is no one literally bothered about their welfare.
Though stories appear day after day, in the local dailies, no one is bothered in India (leave about the local).
We fought against the british, when they treated the indians like dogs. Who is there now to fight against these treatment?
No one will even dare to raise this. Let not anyone argue that many indians are well paid and treated well at offices. I am not here for argument without sufficient knowledge.
The point behind these words... there are going to be more maniappan kutty stories to come in the ensuing days...
People are going to read and show their sympathy as well agree for strong objection and raise slogans... and then go back to their work the next day...
The Hindus and their leaders, for some reason, are quite inept when it comes to arguing their point and fighting a patience battle. Consider, for example, the issue of political dialogue. When it comes to Indian politics, the minorities have hijacked the term 'secular'. Amazingly, no political party that claims to support the Hindu cause has deviced a term that will refer to Hindu vote. Note that saying 'Hindu' directly will not do. People have tried that and failed. A Shivsena leader lost his elected seat in a court battle because the law forbids using religion in election campaign.
It seems to me that those who are highlighting the Hindu cause are making one grave mistake. They are assuming that their point of view is THE ACCURATE one, and the truthful one, and there is no further need to convince anyone. As a result, when someone does not agree fully, they tend to lean towards fanaticism - a perfect recipe for failure.
Why not try and invent a word that will denote targeted Hindus? Why not try to develop a vocab that will be politically correct, that has not been used by others, and that will allows supporters of Hindu cause to say things loudly and clearly without offending any legal provisions?
I can give one example. Rajeev has given a link to the case of abduction of three Hindu girls from Pakistan. If a common man in India knows about this story...do you really think he will vote for anti-hindu parties? Instead of talking about Hindu girls...we can talk about 'Women who cannot breath freely', 'Imprisoned Breath', and so on. Mind you, any westerner will quickly identify with this term....
The problem is, the educated few will keep discussing this in their own net-pockets and the uneducated many will keep getting slaughtered, oppressed, butchered, taken-for-granted, converted..and so on. I urge the readers of this blog to think about civil ways to tackle this problem... without getting too emotional about it.
doesn't matter what political party it is..as soon as it comes to power, it adopts de same strategy to appease de "minorities"
everyone is so concerned about the gujarat massacre and how muslims were butchered there, isn't it?
but where are these same people , why don't they speak up when kashmiri hindus are dragged and massacred? lakhs of them live like refugees in their own countries, but where are the "secularists" to help them???
in the name of "minorities" these peope get extra benefits that we can't even dream of..and today we have come to a state where even if i say that i m a hindu, i would be branded a "fundamentalist".
the fact is that this is how our govt has conditioned us over the years also..
if a muslim dies, all muslim organisations come up giving interviews on tv and in newsppaers saying"dekho dekho hum par atyachar ho raha hai..the majorities are so cruel"
nd if a hindu dies, it is just another death!
every "educated" indian citizen is so happy that our great govt is doing great work to keep the peace process with pakistan alive.. how nice! how touching! when pakistanis come here, we make them feel like kings..
but how many actually know the reality? how our brave soldiers are brutally tortured in their jails, how jawans are killed everyday on our borders? how many of us even think about them? how many of us know that pakistan, under all its friendship face has another very very cruel and ugly face-they promote terrorism in our country and kill innocents?
There are so many "minority" people who openly refuse to give respect to our national anthem and do not sing "vande mataram" becoz it is against their muslim law.. but no action is taken against them..
but in the same muslim law, the punishment for stealing is to cut off both hands..why don't we start giving out these punishment to all muslim thieves? but the moment we start doing this, the shabana azmis and teesta steelwaads of India would have the biggest problem..
When Muslims are kiled in iraq, peace processions are taken out and when hindus die in godhra, no muslim sheds a tear?
there are certain muslim pockets in each city which openly celebrate if in an indo-pak match, pak wins..but no one points a finger at them???
what have i done to deserve this shame? why am i a hindu?
When did Shabana and Teesta support Sharia? They and Javed Akhtar about as anti Sharia as anyone.
And why should they or any one else protest about the treatment of Indians(Hindu or otherwise) in another country when they are slaughtered here in India?
If you think Hindu life is precious, why did you not write about the Hindu from IIM killed by other Hindus in Bihar? Or Jhajjar, where were the bleeding hearts of RSS/ BJP when dalits were butchered? Or is Hindus murdering Hindus is ok?
And what about the appalling show of cowardice by relatives of the hostages of IC814? Their morchas had nothing to do with the CPI or anybody.
Rajeev,
Great Job and Good Analysis....
Few points here.
Hindus themselves are not very organised as a religious association under some able leadership. We have rich devasthanams (temple committees) etc and trusts that hold funds in crores, but the most important thing is a leader who is clear about the wants and needs of Hindus in the light of current scenario.
Though we have few leaders, they are not focussed on truly needed issues like what Rajeev has raised in his article. Though, we have every right to build a temple at Ayodhya, Ram's birthplace (as simple as a mosque rightfully built at the holy Mecca), that should not be the only agenda. It is only one issue, which might take a lot of time to resolve.
Empowering Hindus and encouraging them to rightfully raise to the occasion is more important.
And the most important thing is that, do the people among ourselves, the average Hindu, really value our leaders? For example, how many of us really bother to support someone like a Praveen Bhai Togadia in his voice about foreigners holding esteemed offices in the country. Who really cares if he is being arrested, as a precautionary measure, even before he begins or schedules his rally. Don't you think arresting him in such cases is infringement of right to freedom of expression?
But nothing happens, and no reaction if the Shahi-Imam openly supports terrorism in the mask of 'Jehad'.
Also take the case of a true incident in Hyderabad. One of the preachers of Islam in the old city was being arrested by Gujarat Police in Haren Pandya's murder case, this was protested to such an extent by the people overthere, that a youngman who was in the forefront of the protest lost his life in the firing done by Gujarat Police. Why should there be such a resistance to the arrest of a person involved in terrorist activities? The Police is only carrying out its duty of executing an arrest warrant. And had the accused really been innocent, that would have been proved in the course of investigation.
That is the kind of unity maintained in other religions.
Hindus are being oppressed by themselves, just because they do not bother to raise to an occasion. AND THE BIGGEST CULPRITS ARE ALWAYS THE POLITICIANS WHO PLAY THE MINORITY CARD FOR THEIR VOTE BANKS. Sadly most of these politicians are Hindus, who do not think of the majority who suffer in their power play politics.
As rightly pointed out by others who commented. Whatever may be the reason of the degradation, it's time to:
1. Organize.
2. Reform.
Here's an article in Outlook which recounts how a Hindu MP slapped a Muslim MP in Pakistan's National Assembly for religious slurring. It is really heartening to know that he had the guts to do such a thing. I hope the press gives more coverage to the other issues he raised - the abduction and forceful conversion of Hindu girls, unemployment etc.
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20051226&fname=Pakistan+%28F%29&sid=1
I stared reading your article. But I stopped in the middle and decided to write my comment. I request you not to write these kinds of religious columns. India is crippled and is being crippled by our politicians because of these religious feelings and sentiments. You wrote this column based on incidents that happened to a Hindu and injustice done to him. At the same time, I can find an equal number of journalists who can write better columns stating injustice done to Muslims. Many of our honest and true Muslim brothers are now suffering punishment in the Western world just because every Muslim is placed in to in the background of terrorism. I believe in GOD but never believe in any religion or caste. Religion is just a belief and is established to celebrate and live life in a defined way. When educated people like you and write these kind of religious stuff and instigate these feelings among fellow citizens, this will help politicians to play more games and the people who suffer are the poor. I again personally request you to give up writing columns based on Religion.
Rajeev,
I really liked your column. In the country Hindus are splintered and there is regionalism prevailing.
All the Semitic religions have their basis in the belief in One God and that is why they are organised. However instead of fanning the flames of intolerance why don't we do something about it and make the country a truly Hindu nation.
The confluence of ideas called Hindutva or the nomenclature of a Hindu has no respect because many Hindus are sneaky, conniving and cowardly. Everybody lives by commercial aims. TCS goes and teaches the Chinese for short-term marketing gains when our brand equity could be usurped by China in the long run.
If we are Hindus then we should do something about it and stand up for Hindus all throughout the country. Why don't we have a national organisation for Hindu interests.
Yo,
You are obviously educated so I won't trip over stating the obvious. These liberals have no idea what dominance is and why it is necessary.
Hindus need to establish dominance because we are the only group that can provide the country with order and authority. All minorities should be respected, obviously, and be generously given all rights - for that is the righteous Hindu thing to do.
Muslim men understand by marginalizing and disenfranchizing women of power and position, they naturally extend the domain of their dominance. They smirk at the Hindu neo-liberal who empower the very group who would marginalize them at any oppurtunity. Look at any Muslim-owned business, the group mentality rife in Bollywood and observe the muslim families you meet. We have given the Muslims the benefit of the doubt because we don't know much about the ideology they live by; and we haven't bothered to look closely.
Anyway that was my 2 cents.
It was interesting to read the article that has appeared in outlook (pointed out by another member here). How many Krishnan Bheel's can we see?
Sometime back I happen to read about "madha maatra thadai sattam (in english "law to prevent religion conversion"). I don't know where it is now. I happen to read a lot about as well visited once, the conversion that happened subsequent to the tsunami. A few thousands would have converted their religion after this natural disaster. Is anyone bothered?
When we are not able to prevent these conversion in India, then why to talk about the other parts in the world?
A pragmatic analaysis.
I personally believe that it is almost possible to make a Hindu behave like a Muslim. But a continuous long term education of Hindus can make them pragmatic and to understand the true nature of Islam and Christianity. We have to have "Buddhi" , "Paraakram" and pragmatic "Neeti".
Dear Rajeev...I cannot help thinking that you had drawn up a conclusion and went around looking for proof and subverting facts to prove you theory .
Well for starters , Kutty was kidnapped by robbbers and terrorists , Siju (or whatever) was taken in by American security forces who probably had no idea what they were doing , and naushad's case is with the govt of Saudi where there is a ghost of a chance for negotiation .Now all three lives are important just that circumstnaces surrounding them were different .It is the charming feature of a democracy that plights of minorities get highlighted .You make it appear as though all rules in India are against hindus .Let me give you an example ,in India there are reserations for Hindu Dalits ,but if the same dalit deicdes to change his religion to Islam or christianity he loses all the benefits .This is very much similar to the Arabian laws .
U ask where shabana and others are now ? Well where was vajpayee and co (the so called champion of hindus) when Kutty was held ? Where are they when Hindu activists convert westerners to hinduism ?
I feel sorry for writers like you who take up every single opportunity to pursue your own communal agenda .
Incidentally I am a christian and when I heard of Kutty's death ,I was moved to tears and until you pointed out I never thought of him as Hindu and neither did I know the guy held in Iraq was christian until you pointed out .
So what have you done for Kutty since you highlighted his plight so much ? If you ever saw the newspaper photographs there were catholic nuns comforting Kutty's family after the news of his death broke out .Now the likes of you ,RSS and VHP will never show up in such places but will deride the missionaries saying they were trying to convert Kutty's family .
I disagree with Rajeev. I'm a devout Hindu, but I just entirely disagree with the contents of the article.
Where the hell are the Hindus demanding that the govt do something to help Hindus who are in trouble?
If a Jew skins his knee, the enormous power of the Jewish community is brought to bear. The reason Hindu life is cheap is because HINDUS HAVE DEVALUED THEMSELVES.
It's not the fault of Christians or Muslims.
It's totally Hindus fault for:
1. Electing Agent Sonia Maino to decide if India will use nukes in the event of a war.
2. To turn the other way when Hindus are demonized and slaughtered.
3. To allow our society to decay.
I have so many Christian and Muslim friends who value Hindu life MORE THAN HINDUS!
Most of the Hindus in power are just looking for a meal ticket. As long as agent Sonia Maino gives them their Swiss Bank Accounts, some nice shiny trinkets, they're more than happy to seel their daughters.
If a white man skins his knee, then CNN will put it on the front pages. If 1000 Indians die in a flood, it makes page 22.
Why?
It's totally the fault of Hindus. What have Hindus done to uplift the plight of poorer Hindus? I'll tell you...they are laughing all the way to the bank at the poorer ones. I see this all the time.
Hindus have zero sense of "community". WE are our own worst enemy.
If all the Muslims and Christians left, would the plight of Hindus improve? Would Hindus still lack self-respect? Would Hindus still have self-hatred?
Answer: Yes to all.
Think about it.
Read this one:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1336539.cms
UPA Govt to Impose Caste Quotas on Private Sector
Excellent article......Rajeev Srinivasan is known to be ahard hitting person and this time too leaves no stone turned to get his point driven across.......
I also use this oppurtunity to request Rajeev Srinivasan and all other visitors to visit my infant blog at http://indianhotseat.blogspot.com/.
The aim of this blog is to discuss all issues pertaining to India and in the long term actively involve all visitors to contribute articles strenghtening the rich diversity of the issues pertaining to India.
Thank you very much
Congrats Rajiv for this hard-hitting analysis. More and more articles of this kind are necessary to bring out the TRUTH. The aparthied against the Hindus is a reality. Minorities are controlling a state like Kerala, at the cost of un-organised majority. Unless they organize and follow the teachings of the saints of our land , Hindus will continue taking their lives (suicide or convert).
A person had asked which Hindu organization has taken up Maniappan's issue. Hindu Aikyavedi leader Kummanam is meeting the President to expose the Govt's aparthied against Kutty's family. The family is yet to receive the pledged amounts from the govt. Infosys's 10 lakh is assured but not sure . Keralites are known to lack respect for army personnel, so not sure how many NGOs would come forward.
Aparthied and terror against the Hindus in Kerala is a daily ritual, especially against the backwards and Harijans. "If they cannot be converted, terrorize and humilate".
Following appeared in major dailies in Kerala within past 2-3 weeks:
1)Notorious rape case at the 'minority' run SME in Central Travancore by student predators (all minorities) and the susbsequent cover-up by the college authorities and their pimps in political fields
2)A tenth standard student is brutally ragged by 12th Standard 'minority' students and the subsequent cover-up attempt by the missionary-run school. (December first week)
3)Nithu, a Harijan student was abused by a teacher belonging to a minority faith in Sacred Heart school in Trissur (Kerala kaumudi, Dec 14, 2005). Nithu commited suicide after the teacher abused her harijan caste and SC/ST benefits! What if Nithu was a Christian? She would have lived probably.
4)A catholic priest in Muringoor divine center rapes and impregnates a poor harijan lady. State Women's commission confirms the case. Of course the cover-up attempts are strong here too.
San said
>>> Read this one:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1336539.cms
UPA Govt to Impose Caste Quotas on Private Sector
==========
Hello Rajeev, your take on this please. I am not sure whether you would support this. I have an uneasy feeling about this. No, I am neither so called upper caste, nor so called lower caste.
"It is the charming feature of a democracy that plights of minorities get highlighted"
Thank the majority for that. Governments are just trying to appease the minorities at the cost of the majority. Remember that too but why are these minorities always complaining and whining for more and more benefits? As a matter of fact, the same minorities were following the majority faith once!! Show equality.
"You make it appear as though all rules in India are against hindus .Let me give you an example ,in India there are reserations for Hindu Dalits ,but if the same dalit deicdes to change his religion to Islam or christianity he loses all the benefits.This is very much similar to the Arabian laws ."
Reservations were necessary to bring up the oppressed lot among the Hindus. According to Christians and Islamists, there are NO oppressed lot or caste discrimination among them. So why do they need reservations when a 'converted' soul is given honey, dollars and rice during the pouring of holy water? (In fact , even the dead is discriminated in certain monolithic religions.)
Let me ask you another question - What if a Hindu decides to start a school or college , say in a state like Kerala - (The capital of hindu suicides controlled by the minorities)? Is he allowed to give reservation benefits to the poor among his community? Is he allowed to teach Gita or Veda along with other subjects? Does he get any property tax benefits which is enjoyed by minorities?
I really hope Rajeev's articles would get published in vernacular press. It will guide the 'blind' tolerant lot.
I see that a whole lot of folks have supported your article. As for my opinion. I think your primary example is an incredibly subjective argument based on one example, and the article as a whole is a very divisive an dangerous piece of tripe that does nothing to support India's stand as a secular country. You seem to make enormous generalizations based on these four incidents. India has a lot more people than that Sir. I grew up in a small town, and personally, in day to day life I never, EVER witnessed an incident of discrimination based on religion though I've seen a lot of caste-based violence (from the looks of it, you seem to have never visited a rural area where close to 70% of the Indian, Hindu or otherwise population still lives). Please, please don't instigate/support one more issue to fight over. Religious intolerance has slowly been on the rise starting with the last BJP regime and we do NOT need articles like this, which only stimulate more hatred. There are injustices being done to all parties concerned thanks to a ridiculously ineffective and corrupt bureaucracy. The best thing we can do is to think sensibly and prevent these incidents from filling us with more hatred. What good did this article of yours do but to fuel the hatred of some of your readers? To a neutral viewer from the outside it looks like the hate spewed by an extreme, fundamentalist RSS writer.
You may say that your article is to shine some light on the injustices being done to Hindus. That is fine. I respect that. Your analysis of the situation however, is not objective. Look at both sides before you sow discord. There are some examples that you seem to have conveniently ignored. The rural so called 'low-caste' Hindus are still subjugated to such atrocious extents by the so-called 'higher class'. Several of these people (including tribals) choose to convert to Christianity to escape this severe caste-based oppression. Do you know what happened during the last BJP regime? Any christian organization (including churches, social workers, and even NGOs of noble intent), whether or not they were converting a Hindu got severely scrutinized, some Christian Priests and Sisters were even raped and murdered by these extremists. These so-called lower caste Hindus who converted to Christianity were mass converted back to Hinduism, back to their caste-based oppression. Does any government official EVER go to a Hindu School and verify that Christian/Muslim students are not being converted to Hinduism? NO!!! NNNOOOO!!! Most of this doesn't escape to the media, because everyone knows that the media in India is greatly influenced by the corrupt government officials in power during the time. These things are talked about, bitterly, at the churches, by friends and family of those afore-mentioned affected priests/sisters. You know nothing of this Sir, and you are definitely not in a position to write such a strongly worded article on a widely-read form of media as the web. Please don't try to instigate hate. Please Stop this immediately. We're in the 21st Century. We shouldn't be allowing the devil to run away with our sensibility. We have to think of the long term consequences of each of our actions/propaganda. There is only a thin line dividing this article of yours and what's being taught by the Taliban. I'm really sorry to be so critical, but yours is unfortunately the trend that's becoming more and more widespread in India in the last decade and there are so many of us who can only watch, helplessly.
You seem to make enormous generalizations based on these four incidents.
Heard of Cat calling a kettle black ?
Please don't try to instigate hate. Please Stop this immediately.
Yea right , Mr. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi !!
There is only a thin line dividing this article of yours and what's being taught by the Taliban
Wow ! So much for a grand conclusion on a great analysis.
whether or not they were converting a Hindu got severely scrutinized, some Christian Priests and Sisters were even raped and murdered by these extremists.
Influence of Times of India very much palpable SIR !
Look at both sides before you sow discord.
Yea , because i will look only to one side and always believe it to be true come what may.
... ROTFL..
Any prizes for guessing who this latest SECULAR bleeding-heart on the forum is ?
I will put my money of good'ol George.
Any takers :-))))
Hi Rajeev,
Any comments on the book "Ka" by the Italian author?
Check this link on Rediff.
http://in.rediff.com/getahead/2005/dec/19ka.htm
Dear Beelzebub,
With all the noble thoughts you
have expressed, I wonder - why did
you choose to call yourself
"Beelzebub" ?! (which is actually a
name for Satan!). Just curious...
You could have chosen "Buddha" or
something like that...:-)
Anyway, I'm just writing to say
that I dont think Rajeev wrote the
article to incite/instigate hatred.
I think he wrote it draw attention
to something he is very concerned
about, and to create dialog on the
subject, and to get readers'
thoughts and solutions, and to
spread awareness.
Regardless of what his opinion is,
if you notice, he isnt deleting
anybody's comments (except one,
which must have been an indecent
one). All kinds of views from
different people are being
presented. This is a very open
discussion.
i dont agree with what u say on the cause of Maniappan kutty's death!! as someone already has mentioned, in the cases 2/3/4 there were parties to contact and negotiate with! not with taliban..... pls dont bring in the issue of religion into this and EVERY OTHER THING in this world!! unless people like you shed this religion/caste based thoughts/arguments our nation wont prosper in any way!!! am surprised and SHOCKED that rediff published this article!! I am a Keralite and a Hindu and i do feel bad and sorry for what happened to Maniappan kutty and do accept its wrong on the Govt's part to have not taken more initiative but wud be only MAD to accept that it was coz he was a Hindu!!!
U misunderstood the concept of secularism..
Does Secularism mean..
1.Burning an Australian priest and in son to death inside a car in orissa?
2.Demolition of Ayodhya Mosque which was treated like a national achievement by the 3rd rate cheap idiots in India?
3.Sexual Harassement of Nuns and women priests in Orrissa, Bihar and Gujart?
4.Demolition of churches in Gujarat?
Once the so called "Hinduthva" ideology started in India, they started disturbing the minorities and now they are reaping what they sowed..
Hi Fleming,
What do you think of the Vatican hiding an internationally-wanted War Criminal like General Ante Govina, who murdered large numbers of civilians during the Yugoslav civil war? He killed a lot more people than an Australian priest and his 2 sons.
What do you think about the fact that the Ayodhya mosque was built on top of someone else's place of worship?
Why don't you show us some video of the sexual harassment? Charges are easy to make, and they are certainly a useful tool for whipping up macho honor.
Why not also talk about proselytization by advantaged first world cultures against vulnerable 3rd world cultures?
You seem to define demographic boundaries according to your own whims and desires, when in fact there are a myriad of ethnic groups in India, each of which can be considered minorities, rather than just your own.
Do you feel that ethnic groups other than Christians have the right to be socially and politically cohesive, or does that only apply to Christians?
Hi Rajeev
You have written an excellent article. I can only agree with you.
When will the servile hindus of Kerala learn their lesson. Are they content by being relegated to the fringes of society by the minorities. Do they have a say in anything in Kerala. Why are they and their votes so hopelessly sub-divided and fragmented. Why are the Ezhavas/Thiyyas still voting for the leftists. Didnt their guru advise them to organize themselves. SHAME on the KERALA HINDUS - they have accepted servility as a way of life.
It is high time that the Maniappan episode open their eyes and view for themselves how they are being utilised. Cant they see the enthusiasm of the politicians in the Naushad episode (with due concern at his fate) which was totally missing in the case of Maniappan. If the Ezhavas and Nairs of Kerala unite they can become a formidable force - But will they. Or will they be content with heaping hosannas at St Sonia Maino's feet or eulogise the leftists.
I am glad that people like Rajeev are taking cudgels on behalf of the Hindus. We need to organise ourselves to unmask and obliterate the forces who are endangering hindus and hinduism.
May your tribe increase.
Hi Rajeev,
Kudos to u for writing such an article.Its a fact that Hindus are the worst affected in India and the world over. I am a firm beleiver in Secularism and true nationalist at heart . I ve been to Kerela and i ve seen the pathetic state of Hindus there in the hands of christian majority.I went to stay in my friends place in Alleppey who happens to be a christian. they bought a new home and in its garden there was a Tulsi ka ped as it was a hindu home previously.My friends father received dictates and threats from the local church to demolish that structure . But being an ardent nationalist he did not do so and had to go thru many embarrasing questions.
And beleive it or not but we Hindus are ourseleves responsible for this horrible state of ours-
1.We r not at all united.The congress has been successfully diving us on the lines of caste and language.
2.We Hindus beleive and respect every religion. Our religion teaches us that there r many ways to reach God. Dont u go to a church or the mazaar of a fakir and respect and pray with same devotion as u go to a temple? But tell me how many muslims and christians go to our temples or celebrate our festivals with that devotion? I ve seen christians refusing to play holi as they say that color is not to be used in their religion. This is because their religion beleives in monoethism-one God .they say only thier way is the only way and no other way is their to acheive God. This very fact is against secularism.
3. When something happens to Muslims or Chiristains hell is raised in this country.Tell me how many hindus can do that same thing in Pakistan or BanglaDesh or any Arab country. Where goes that cry of equality and secularism?When minorities want equality then why they turn a blind eye towards uniform civil code?
We Hindus have suffered and will always suffer bcoz we r weak. Thousand of years of inactivity and passiveness has snatched from us our strength.We seldom stand against injustice done to our own people.We r so much engrossed in our regionalism and language that we overlook our religion.
My parents were from Bangladesh. They had to flee that place bcoz they were hindus and weak. I was born in India . We have to stop this appeasement and be so strong so that we dont have to again leave this country .
It is very true that Hindus visit
all places of worship, even non-
Hindu ones, and I think they also
generally wish Christians on Xmas
and Muslims on Id.
But the reverse isnt quite true.
You dont often find the latter
wishing Hindus on their religious
festivals. My family has had an
Xian neighbour for years. If I
find her around Christmas time, I
wish her. She has never wished us
on any Hindu occasion, although we
stop for a chat once in way.
And I dont remember any Christian
wishing us for any festival last
many years. It's not important for
them.
I do feel compelled to write something about my own experiences relating to abrahamic religions.
1)In hospitals run by christians(I know a few)people get treatment for their medical problems.At the same time they are offered a choice that they can get free treatment and other freebies if they(including whole families if possible) convert to christianity.
2)My friend was working in a christian hospital.Her mother used to come to pick her on the way from work.She was befriended by a nun in the hospital who followed her for a few weeks.Soon she was bombarded with messages of love christ and all positives in christianity etc and negative aspects about hindu life and religion.Her mother started talking about christ etc at home and was wrecking peace in the family.To safe guard her mother from predatory influences of nun from the hospital,she resigned listing out the reasons.Of course nothing happened to the nun.Her mother is now back to normal as a hindu.
3)This happened in the medical college as told to me by my friend.
Two students-one hindu and the other christian were studying in the same medical college.They were close to each other since childhood.The christian soon developed the idea to convert the hindu as he found that the hindu did not show much interest in religion.He asked him to visit the church, read bible,stories of christ etc and many other small things which brought about the christianity in full force and showed hindu religion in bad light.The unsuspecting hindu trusting his christian friend of many years converted to christianity.He hid it from his family and friends for sometime.Somehow his friends found out his conversion and questioned him.He told all that happened.They confronted the christian person and asked him to desist from such activities.He initially refused,but the friends had to use the threat of force, than he agreed to stop influencing unsuspecting hindus.
Faming said :
>>> Does Secularism mean..
1.Burning an Australian priest and in son to death inside a car in orissa?
2.Demolition of Ayodhya Mosque which was treated like a national achievement by the 3rd rate cheap idiots in India?
3.Sexual Harassement of Nuns and women priests in Orrissa, Bihar and Gujart?
4.Demolition of churches in Gujarat?
=========
Does Secularism mean :
1. Freedom for Conversion of people of other religion by force, murder, bribe and loot.
2. Freedom to grab land and destroy temples (Kerala)
3. Freedom to arm terrorists to kill innocents. (Nagaland)
4. Freedom to call (slander) Hindus idol-worshippers, ritualistic and caste discriminators, while continue to do the same yourself ( You are as much idol worshippers as we are, as much ritualistic (baptisms, holy water, silver spoons, etc) as we are and you are as much discriminatory as we are. ).
Take your secularism to the chor bazaar and see if you can find any buyers willing to pay 2 pennies for it.
Flemming has understood the concept of secularism perfectly. We know that when the freedom of missionaries to offend all other religions fanatically is a right conferred by the organized mafias, possibly operating in church and the killers? Apparently such men of love colluded to massacre either of tutsis or hutus in millions in 1990s. But I agree with Flemming, how could secularism mean destroying national monuments of India like the Babri Mosque at Ram Janmabhumi ? Did Jesus taught pure hatred to demean and desecrate all the places of worships that doesn't come into the organized mafia of church ? Otherwise how did Babr's descretion is a monument ? DO you guys tell such stuff in west to raise funds ? Oh Boy, they killed a white christian. The point is value of a white christian is billion dollars in terms of fund raising from the church ! The unfortunate incident involving insenstive missionaries asides, should we be forced to agree that , the missionaries never conspired to loot and destroy civillizations ?
Fleming, if it makes to raise money using the sexual harassment case then shame on you, one of the cases was popular and that was proved to be a fraud. May be a father raped her later. We wouln't know such stuff. These rapes happen in churches.
-----
U misunderstood the concept of secularism..
Does Secularism mean..
1.Burning an Australian priest and in son to death inside a car in orissa?
2.Demolition of Ayodhya Mosque which was treated like a national achievement by the 3rd rate cheap idiots in India?
3.Sexual Harassement of Nuns and women priests in Orrissa, Bihar and Gujart?
4.Demolition of churches in Gujarat?
---------------------------
It was reported in a malayalam daily that, when Maniappan's family contacted the Keralite external affiars minister (E Ahamed of Muslim league, the party of Jinnah), he was talking to his friends in Middle east . He never bothered to talk to kutty's father instead his secy talked. Ahamed responds after 24 hrs , when Taliban had initially given 48 hrs time!
What if Rahul Gandhi was the victim instead of the commoner Maniappan?
To the person who defined secularism - In Kerala catholic priests have raped and killed nuns and none of these priests have been punished. They are freed whenever the Congress (christian controlled). The present christist CM, Oomen Chandy has shown undue interest to manipulate the evidence of a sensational case and free the priest who killed Sister Abhaya and dumped her body in a well.
Couldnt agree more with you Rajeev - esp the part where u say that the christian or muslim life is more valuable than a hindu life.
Pathetic state of affairs I must say.
Great job with this writing - please keep writing such columns.
Suyog
@ daisies...
"Re: Beelzebub (a name for Satan.. Hah! Thanks for the edification. You opened my eyes)". I anticipated some kind of irrelevant comment directed to my user name. I fail to see how my user name becomes anyone's business and how it is even remotely related to any discussion. A guy doesn't have to call himself Buddha to talk sense. It's just a NAME! Get over yourself. Would your domain of discussion be restricted only to the works of Wordsworth and Shakespere just because you call yourself daffodils or daisies? No. Coming back to the points you make... I do appreciate them and the fact that the article has been put out there to collect public opinion. There's no harm with that. It's just that articles related to sensitive topics like caste and religion should be written with some objectivity. That is not the case here. This article has taken on a totally lop-sided perspective instead of rising above the situation and taking an egalitarian view of all concerned parties. If an article takes sides so blatantly, all it will do is promote acrimonious, sentimental comments. There are a lot of unstable individuals reading what's on the internet these days and you don't want them reading material like this. The least you can do is to tell them the entire truth. What the author says may be true.. I'm not accusing him of slander (nor am I berating your comments). All I'm trying to say is that if you hide the reality of what's happening to the muslims and christians (like the heinous, unchecked attacks on muslims in the gujarat riots and the attacks on priests and nuns in Bihar and Orissa), you are not providing enough material for an open, fair discussion.
Dear Beelzebub,
You really need a brain checkup and
attitude checkup.
I sent you a friendly comment,
and a compliment for your noble thoughts, and only stating my
wonder about your name, which as
far as I knew from my knowledge
of synonyms, is a name of Satan.
Who cares what name you or I
choose ? It makes no difference to
me or anyone. It was your views
that mattered.
Your response is so arrogant and
unfriendly!!!
Hence, this time around,
I SURE DID NOT BOTHER TO READ
YOUR VIEWS !!!!!!
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just for everybody's information,
since this commentator has taken
so much offence about my harmless
remark, I verified from Webster's
dictionary:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beelzebub
One entry found for Beelzebub.
Main Entry: Beel·ze·bub
Pronunciation: bE-'el-zi-"b&b, 'bEl-zi-, 'bel-
Function: noun
Etymology: Beelzebub, prince of devils, from Latin, from Greek Beelzeboub, from Hebrew Ba'al zebhubh, a Philistine god, literally, lord of flies
1 : DEVIL
2 : a fallen angel in Milton's Paradise Lost ranking next to Satan
@ Daisies. My apologies. It was an honest misunderstanding this time. Let's not divert the course of the discussion. If you'd read down to my views your fury might've been mitigated since I'd appreciated your explanation. However, it is my fault that you didn't read further.
The article served its purpose where we stop and think for a minute what is happening to our religion. And that minute turned out to be a full hour deep thought!.
Well, first of all, how is it that the politicians able to exploit the minorities using religion as a carrot? How is it that Laloo Yadav was in power for 15 years? How is it that out of 1 billion people, we had SONIA GANDHI coming so close to becoming a prime minister? The answer to all questions lies in EDUCATION.
And the ray of hope still exists. As more and more youngsters are educated, hopefully they will value their vote more than a bottle of country liquor.
And now for the wounds within.
Most of the hindus are made to believe that RSS is an organization that they shouldnt associate themselves with.
And most of them want to stay away...why? because the common Hindu dont even know whats going on. Who is to blame? The ignorant hindu or the RSS which doesnt want to publicize the activities saying 'we dont believe in showing off'...
it was only when I went to an RSS meeting that I realized what activities that are they do.... and now I am proud that I went to the meeting. Now I can say for sure that RSS is not what its portrayed. But the awareness among RSS and other orgs is very low. Its because of our nonchalent attitude.
As a global phenomenon, religion as a way of life has been losing out on significance...
Forget Hindu religion, the Indian (Indian way of life is anyway the Hindu way of life) way of life and culture itself is losing out..
It is a shame that world over we have Yoga classes being conducted at premium prices where back home we are flooding the gyms.
Its a shame that we are hiding the Indian identities in Call centers and identify hindus as Lucia and George.
Its a shame that we, the hindus, have been reduced to a divided community where the divide is increasing and so is the wealth of the heads on top of our hindu heirarchy.
Its time to act, and start acting at home, by making sure the children learn about our history (the way they should), and ensure that they know the vedas and Bhagavat Gita.. Lets make sure we contribute towards the development of the lower castes so that there would be no reason for them to get converted to any other religion.
Lets stop the blame game and act. Let's for once start it ourselves in our own small way.
I think Thought Revolution makes an excellent point when he says "Development of the lower castes so that there would be no reason for them to get converted to any other religion". That is precisely the problem. These so called 'lower castes' in the rural areas appear to change their religion just because they see no better way for improvement. Education is also a key issue that has to be addressed, however the educational schemes of the government don't seem to be so effective since they don't normally trickle down to the rural masses, and consequently aren't as impressive as they sound on paper.
This is sad reflection of the petty mindedness of certain individuals. Does Mr. Rajeev realize that 4 such random incidents can be picked up about any community and posted as some kind of sensational post? This is a shame on journalism, at its worst.
How come he doesn't speak of the millions of people dying each day and suffering injustice irrespective of their religion? What about the nuns being murdered and raped? What about innocent children being slaughtered? Do you, Mr. Author have the guts to descend out of your high pedestal and see the world for the pathetic state it is in?
I do not expect this post to be published because I'm not going to flatter this author. I think people like him is what's wrong with society today.
Got this link from JihadWatch.com
Gruesome pictures of Bangladeshi Hindus being beaten to death. Just for the sin of being Hindus.
link
First of all the author is highlighting the apathy of the Govt. of the day, towards its citizenry. Secondly he is highlighting that this apathy is selective. Thirdly he is citing examples of this selective pattern of discrimination that is endemic in our society. Yes there are many challenges facing our society which is not included in this article, simply because this article was only to deal with one subject, selective discrimination against Hindus, period. So let us not confuse other readers and participants with rants about caste, selective and unsubstantiated cases of "minority" bashing, etc., and distract others by unwarranted flames and innuendos or unrelated events. I suggest we read the article with a modicum of decency and with a sense of objectivity -- if this apathy by the Govt. against certain section of society is wrong then we must acknowledge that boldly, whatever our religious or personal preferences. We cannot allow our narrow biases (often indoctrination of hate from an early age) to stand in our way of reason and plain logic.
So let us debate intelligently and arrive at a consensus that will help at reforming our society to feel pride in all sections of our society, our nation, and our heritage, and of our current and past contributions to this world. Let us learn from our (including our own present prejudices and our own ancestors' atrocities) own mistakes from our history (we have to face up to our past squarely, not just selectively our immediate past in Gujarat, but also of the holocausts by Christian colonial regimes, maurading Islamists, the shameless missionary cabal's activities, caste discrimination, etc.) -- past is a good reference for our future actions; we can learn what we did wrong, and what we did right (again not selectively by hollistically). Let us reform ourselves and I am sure that will have a positive effect around us.
Let us not bash the messenger but keenly observe the details presented to understand the chanllenges faced by our society today. If we do not take corrective actions, we shall leave a mess for our children and thiers!!
This just goes to show that any thought process however idiotic, may be rationalised. What is with people that they always have this "poor me" mentality and want to prove themselves superior. If its not religion, its something else. As far as this post is concerned, like all your other posts it is ridiculous ..
This post is inaccurate on many grounds. You have picked up 4 incidents, and have co-related the facts reaching bizarre conclusions.
Injustice is being committed in all parts of the world and fortunately or unfortunately that has nothing to do with any ONE religion. And the government is ineffective in all these cases. Remember the bombay riots? Or how a train of hindu pilgrims is burnt? How a certain missionary was murdered and chopped to pieces?
If a person's faith is strong, conversion doesn't work. So rather than pointing fingers, try to learn more about your own faith whatever it might be and take good from it.
Please do not belittle the importance of life or pain as it happens universally. And please grow up, if you can.
The so-called fundamentalists who bash different religions have no issues in going to US of A to earn money and get an education.
This is Indian hypocrisy at its best.
Dissent and voicing an opinion is the hallmark of democracy. If vocal folks go to the USA (which many believe to be a champion of democracy and free speech), what is wrong? The irony (and frankly the biggest, cruelest joke) is sitting in India, and despite claiming to be part of a secular polity, the insecular groups beat down on the inherently secular group, for subversive politico-religious gains -- all in the name of secularism!! Muslim, Christian and atheist groups, openly claiming (in fact named as) to be religious or marxist/maoist are claiming they are secular (an 'minority'), all the time embarking on insecular activities -- now that is food for thought!!
There was one nun who lodged a false complain, nothing was proved from the complaint. The christians converted most by financial power, the hindus protested with misinformation around there was news of a nun.
WHy not reader talk of christists who support terrorism ? What about innocent chrildren killed with christist support ? Are they not humans ? That was the topic raised in the article. Brave article indeed . I am sure the other is gentle enough to be distracted by such comments as problems of society. Such denunciation would work for raising armies of forest dwellers who don't understand that the jokers and sepoys.
How come he doesn't speak of the millions of people dying each day and suffering injustice irrespective of their religion? What about the nuns being murdered and raped? What about innocent children being slaughtered? Do you, Mr. Author have the guts to descend out of your high pedestal and see the world for the pathetic state it is in?
I do not expect this post to be published because I'm not going to flatter this author. I think people like him is what's wrong with society today.
Readers says 4 incidents don't generalize, fine. But Mt Rajeev has agreed that he sometimes learns from the marxist and sepoy techniques to hold a mirror to them. Somebody either found a skull or didn't find it in some excavation in Harappa. That proved a theory from which none could deviate, the sepoy secularist wouldn't complain about thousand generalization from nothing.
The sad part is the secularist wouldn't try to gain knowledge. The reader who wrote the following cites a false complaint or may be another to disporove Rajeev ! That is the real petty mindedness ! Such petty minds doesn't deserve more.
This is sad reflection of the petty mindedness of certain individuals. Does Mr. Rajeev realize that 4 such random incidents can be picked up about any community and posted as some kind of sensational post?
All the posters criticizing Rajeev,
From what I read in the article - Rajeev is criticizing the Indian politicians for not dealing with people fairly based on their being human beings. Is there anything wrong with that?
Why are people getting so paranoid and saying that he has criticized entire communities - is it a guilty conscience?
Also here is a statement by a "trye Muslim" - go argue with him
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17607307%5E2702,00.html
Murder 'infidels', Mukhlas urges
"Aren't you aware that the model for us all, the Prophet Mohammed and the four rightful caliphs, undertook to murder infidels as one of their primary activities, and that the Prophet waged jihad operations 77 times in the first 10 years as head of the Muslim community in Medina?"
Cannot imagine that you found secularism in that. You should have thought that these incidents happened in different countries where the cultures and attidudes defer. I agree that our ministers and polititians were lazy in acting. But we should not suspect the role of religion involved. Thats not fair.
In response to Richa's post, some nutcase called kaplak damir waded through the sea of mediocrity and blurted :
>>>>
When did Shabana and Teesta support Sharia? They and Javed Akhtar about as anti Sharia as anyone.
And why should they or any one else protest about the treatment of Indians(Hindu or otherwise) in another country when they are slaughtered here in India?
If you think Hindu life is precious, why did you not write about the Hindu from IIM killed by other Hindus in Bihar? Or Jhajjar, where were the bleeding hearts of RSS/ BJP when dalits were butchered? Or is Hindus murdering Hindus is ok?
And what about the appalling show of cowardice by relatives of the hostages of IC814? Their morchas had nothing to do with the CPI or anybody.
===========
Shabana and akhtar are in support of Sharia. Why do they support the muslim personal law then.
Well, then they should also not protest the killing of jehadis in iraq and afghanistan, and plead for support from us Hindus. Well you may find a**holes like Nutwar supporting them, but dont expect us to be sympathetic. Khilafat was a mistake for which we are paying till now. Why should we be bothered about iraq and afghanistan when jehadis are killing fellow muslims too in kashmir. :))
We do condemn the killing of the IIM Grad, Manjunath, by killers in Bihar. But mind you, the reasons were not because he was Hindu, but it was because he came to know of sale of adulterated petrol by the killers. Killing in the name of jehad/prosletyzation is what we are against. A criminal is a criminal, and he doesnt think that he is killing a fellow Paki, a fellow Arab, or a fellow Hindu, or a fellow Christian.
>>Or is Hindus murdering Hindus is ok?
Hindus dont kill Hindus in the name of religion
>>>And what about the appalling show of cowardice by relatives of the hostages of IC814?
What about the appalling show of cowardice by jehadis in Gujarat, crying on tv and papers, shouting "atyachaar", holding candle light vigils, taking out morchas, etc, where 40% of those killed were Hindus.
klapak, please read up a bit on the real situation, before you cry like the so called secularists ( jehadists ??) do.
Dear "first" Human being, here's the thing: I read most of my India specific news through Google News India. Now now, I know you are all grown up and all (going by your advice to people to join the grown up club and all) but for the other 'bacchas' on this blog, the way Google News works is by displaying the most relevant stories being posted on important websites (pertaining to a subject). This source therefore gives you a gist of the news important websites are publishing related to India in an unbiased manner.
For anyone watching these stories develop there over the last one month it was really vanilla plain that the Maniappan story didn't even figure nearly one-tenth as prominently as compared to the other two stories. Especially noticable was the absense of grovelling of big, powerful Union Ministers in case of Maniappan.
I noticed this bias a couple of weeks back (and Sir Mr. Grown Up that means BEFORE 'little' Rajeev who needs to 'grow up' wrote this article).
Can I now come join the 'Grown Up' club (the pre-condition, though, is that you must leave the club first "Human being first")
Please refrain urself from spreading the poison of religion based society
Dhiren,
That is precisely the intent of the article, to highlight the organized religion perpetrated horror in Bharath. There are very devious forces in play, organized under religious banners (read Muslim and Christian), ideological banners (read Marxists and Maoists) -- these have combined to forge a strong alliance of evil that will destroy the very core cultural values and principles of India based on democracy, liberty, freedom, justice, much of these from Sanatana Dharma, which was a tradition that enveloped all communities within Bharath, and had a mellowing effect on even foreign ideologies such as Islam and Christianity. Now these refugees have taken over the country and now claiming that they have the right to enslave, control, proliferate and destroy -- not all are bad but the ones who can make the difference are bad and that is trouble, trouble for all that is!! This axis of evil, namely the commie, mullah, padre combine are really partners in crime against humanity. Using constitutional and legal loopholes, and playing vote bank politics, they have successfully managed to control the opinion making centers, such as education, journalism and politics -- thay this combine is controling India today is really the anxiety for Hindus in particular and should for Indians in general. However barring the segment of Hindus who can see the coming of the crusades, all others are blissfully (in the case of indifferent Hindus) and wilfully (in the case of the so called moderate 'minorities' as they benefit from this) participating in the implosion of a civilization -- all from within. Forces are eating away at the very entrails of the mother that nutured and provided refuge and that mother could perhaps be the mother of all modern civilizations (we are seeing the trends in genetics) and as Mark Twain surmised! If we kill our mother and despise our own bretheren in the interest of foreign interests, then no power in nature will pardon us. Our children and thiers will pay for our follies today! It is a shame that we see this artile through the prism of communalism. Here is one episode in the Mahabaratha: A brahmin, a kshatriya, a vaisya and a shudra collude to commit a murder and Yudhistra gives the punishment as follows. The shudra should be imprisoned for 2 years (because he was ignorant), the vaisya should get 4 years (instead of being a provider he partcipated), the kshatriya should get 8 years (instead of being a protector he participated) and the brahmin 16 years (instead of being the counselor against the crime he participated). So that is what the meaning of this article is, that having come from such a just tradition, we have now transformed into a demonizing, canniving, subversive, manipulating and shameless society! Yes caste problems also need to look closely at the Mahabaratha story but that is for another thread and for all Hindus. Similarly the 'minorities' would do well to fix thier own house! As for the commies, the less said the better!
Dhiren,
Please don't be an apologist for commie and Islamic fundamentalisms.
lovelyricha
Is any one other than a Hindu feels ashamed just because non-members of his/her religion wants him.her ashamed ?
Are Kashmiri (INDIAN) muslims ashamed that they have conducted a near complete GENOCIDE of Indian hindus in Kashmir valley ?
Sending people on guilt trip in order to further its own goals is well-known and very profitable strategy for organised religion. Church still uses it to collect money, which is used for spritual/physical terrorism against Hindus in India. Are you aware that one terrorist group in INDIA, TNLF is entirely made up of Christists ?
Never fall in the guilt trip if you have not done any wrong. If your community does any wrong, then you can do whatever you want, including trying to make people listen your point of view. Ofcourse this is a luxury you don't have in some organised cult, which passes for religion in india. People are known to behave in irrational ways when they have it.
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what have i done to deserve this shame? why am i a hindu?
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